4X20 series

[bigblock]

My computer has been giving me problems so I haven't been spending very much time here lately and may have missed some of what I am about to share. Please forgive me if I'm covering old ground.

I just happened to pick up a brochure a couple of days ago on the new twenty series tractors. It appears that the new series is not meant to replace the present ten series but is an upgrade powerwise. There are four models: 4120, 4320, 4520, and 4720. All appear to be the same size physically and all weigh the same, 3700 lb.. They all share the same 2.44 liter four cylinder turbocharged diesel but the gross horsepower ranges from 43 to 58. All are available with either 12x12 power reverser or ehydro transmission except the 4720, which is hydro only.

The specs on the 400x loader are almost the same as the 460. The 400x lifts less than 50 lbs more less than 1 inch higher. Breakout force for the 460 is about 350 lbs. more than the 400x.

I was thinking about upgrading from my 4310 when I move North next year but I'm not all that impressed with the Twenty series. They look like overgrown 100 series lawn tractors. I guess a 4710 would suit me if I end up needing something bigger. I must be getting old but I like tractors that look like tractors. Square corners are alright with me. I think the Ten series or the 90 series tractors look better. Hey, we're all entitled to our opinion and I'm sure that they will sell plenty of the new models.

What do you guys think?

Bob

 

[cowboydoc]

I'm not sure why they didn't upgrade the loader specs. The purpose of the curved design was supposed to be increased strength. But then they didn't increase the strength. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif The motor will now be a JD powertech engine. The 58hp will be a best in class.

As far as looks I like the looks of them but liked the old style too.

I think they made a couple of bonehead decisions though. Why would they delete the draft control? That makes no sense. They give the tractor more power but then cut out one of the biggest helps in ground engaging activities and one of the main reasons for needing the extra ponies.

The other bonehead move, at least from my perspective, was only offering the 4720 in hydro. If it was available in power reverser they would have sold one to me. As it is I'll just keep the 4600.

 

[BillyP]

Richard, since all the 4000 twenty series are identical, they could make you a 4720 power reverser in a flash. All they would have to do is change a few decals and tweak the engine/injector pump (whatever they do to get the extra HP out of the same engine).

Most likely you could buy a 4510 reverser and get the dealer to tweak it?

 

[cowboydoc]

Unfortunately the dealers are prohibited by federal law from doing anything like that. If they even know that you did they are supposed to turn you in. I did turn it up on my 4600 but I did that myself. On a brand new tractor still in warranty I would be hesitant to do that.

 

[bigblock]

I agree with you on the 4720. If I got one I would want the reverser. I don't understand why they offer it on the other three and not the 4720.

Bob

 

[timb]

I'm thinking that something in the tranny/clutch pack/rear end isn't up to the torque of the new 4720. Otherwise it would be a very strange option restriction since they are still making the reverser, the engines are all identical form factors (bolts right up), and it would take zero extra effort to make it available.

I did eventually get an email back from Deere corporate confirming they dropped the draft control because it simply hadn't sold much.

Glad to see you now have to fit under the bell curve and can't work outside the mainstream.

Bob - if you want a 4710 move fast. I almost missed out - my dealer had to go to Vermont to get me a 4710 reverser. There are (or were) more hydros available unsold. There is also a $900 or $1000 rebate until the end of July.

 

[bigblock]

I can't believe that the reverser is not up to the power of the 4720. Deere has power reverser transmissions in far more powerful tractors than that.

As for getting a 4710 now. If I get through the next few months without losing the 4310 I have now and my Corvette I'll consider myself lucky. Besides, I don't know that they aren't going to continue to produce the 4710.

Bob

 

[Woodbeef]

Hey Doc,

Is JD embarking on a new campaign to make the highest hp tractor in each series from now on shiftless by anychance? They've already done it with the large frame 7020s and now the 4020s. Will the 6030s and 8030s be the same I wonder?

 

[cowboydoc]

Tim,

The reverser will handle plenty of torque. I don't think that's the reason. My dealer is trying to get an answer.

Woodbeef,

I don't know what they are trying to do. I haven't seen any news on anything new in the 6000 and 8000 series.

 

[timb]

Bob -

I'm not saying that reversers per se are limited in power handling. Every transmission on the planet has it's input torque limit somewhere. The 4710 hit a peak engine torque output of 108 lb-ft. (owner's manual spec) where the 4720 has a max torque of 154 lb-ft. (a 42% boost!) Even if the tranny had a healthy reserve handling before - the 4720 may simply go over that limit. The 5000 series does not use the same reverser transmission - yet the 5220 peaks around 120 lb-ft - even the 5320 only puts out 144 lb ft peak. The 'new' Twenty series engines are potent, no doubt.

Since JD is still going to use that tranny in the rest of the Twenty series line - and since so far I can not find a single bolt or screw difference in the engines it looks like the reverser would fit a 4720 with zero extra effort and without any need to keep any unique extra components around on JD's part.

I can only think of three reasons to not offer the reverser on the 4720.

1) the tranny can't handle it (or perhaps with that tranny in place the range box, or rearend, or... can't handle the torque - remember no one publishes how much power a hydro bleeds off of the rear wheels so maybe with the hydro in place it bleeds off enough torque to be safe for the downstream components ) or

2) possibly it's a pollution spec thing with the big power motor, or

3) another (as Cowboydoc so aptly put it) 'bonehead move' with this new series. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif