Lost in Tractor Space

[Lotek]

Like many others, I'm new to tractors and have been lurking on TBN for several weeks. I'm learning a bunch while trying to determine the right tractor for me. I plan to make a purchase in the near future and hope the wise minds and experience on TBN will provide some guidance, because I want this purchase to be the right one the first time. Sorry for the length of this post - I tried to provide as much info as possible in order to receive accurate and applicable advice.

Relevant info -
Land: Recently purchased home on approx 3 acres in the Central CA foothills near Yosemite. Land is mostly flat but has some rolling slopes; one smallish area (approx 40' X 40') at the back & near the house has an upslope of about 30* that leads to further flat areas. There are several large (> 5' high) granite outcroppings, some smaller granite boulders & rocks scattered about, and some granite "slabs" peeking out of the dirt by 3-4 inches. Vegetation consists of native grasses & weeds, manzanita, numerous large oaks that are mostly in groves, and 4 dying willows (1 is huge). I will likely have a tree guy remove the willows. Some oaks have good clearance below the branches but others have branches hanging down to the ground. Little to no snow. Driveway is 3/4" - 1" rock, approx 230' long, with a gentle upslope. There is a swale about 2.5' deep X 2' or so wide and 150-200' long that also needs grasses/weeds cut, but I can probably do that with a weed-whacker.

Intended tractor use: Immediate & ongoing needs are fire protection via rough cutting/mowing native grasses and weeds on approx 2.5 acres (no wet areas during summer months), and creating & maintaining minimum 20' wide fire break around home; removing & hauling dead/cut scrub brush piles to burn pile area; maintenance of rock driveway. I don't intend to landscape or till any of these 2.5 acres. Foreseeable needs include moving fallen oak limbs and dead scrub trees/bushes, and leveling area(s) near the house for a couple of small Tuff-Shed type storage buildings. Possible future needs if I build a barn & kennel would include moving hay bales, oat sacks, and large sacks of dog food; mucking out stalls & corrals. Will use current lawn mower & garden tools for lawn and plant areas.

Tractor experience: Zip, zilch, nada.

Budget: Is $15K do-able for tractor, MMM, blade, & FEL?

I'm focusing on small chassis CUTs because they apparently have better ground clearance and stability on slopes than the SCUTs, but are still agile. I definitely want hydro, 4WD, folding ROPS, 12" or better axle-to-ground clearance, attachments that are easy to attach & remove [I'm a girl .... my hands & arms aren't as strong as a guy's !! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ], mid and rear full Cat 1 PTOs. I need a tractor that is easy to operate, has readily available service and repair parts, and is very reliable (I'm inexperienced, mechanically challenged, and the nearest tractor store of ANY kind is about 50 miles away).

At this point I'm leaning toward Deere 4010 or 4110, a 54" MMM for cutting the weeds/grasses, a blade for the fire break and driveway (front? rear? box blade?), and probably a FEL too. It seems that the 4010 will do what I need & then some, but I'm not sure. Is the additional strength of the 4110 worth the extra $$$ for my expected uses, or would it be "over-buying"? It doesn't appear that CUTs of the other colors meet my reqts like the Deere seems to, but I'm a newbie and don't fully understand all the technological differences between mftrs. Orange may be close, but their qtr inch valve seems like it would/could be a PITA compared to Deere's system.

Also, can anyone recommend good, professional dealers in the Central CA area? Yesterday I met with a JD and a NH dealer in Fresno. I was underwhelmed. I felt patronized by both and also sensed they thought I have "Sucker" written on my forehead. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif The NH guy tried to push the SCUTs on me, then a supposedly new TC30 that tilted to the left. The JD guy also tried to push his SCUTs. Both dealers had lots of SCUTs on hand. The JD guy said he couldn't find any 4010s or 4110s but could order from the factory. He said if he did that, I'd have to buy it whether I liked the tractor or not. If all/most dealers are like these 2 clowns, I will forget about buying a tractor and instead get some horses and goats.

Thanks in advance for all help given.

 

[Cliff_Johns]

The 4010 or a 4110 sound like an appropriate choice for you, but the salesman sounds like a reject. For Kubota, you could look at the 2410, I think it's got a postition control and some other nice features. For JD, I looked at the 4010 first, then decided that, for not much extra, the 4110 was worth it. The 4115 seemed like a big jump in price after that.

Next time you go to the JD dealer, walk around the yard, poke your head into the shop and look around. Does it appear professionally run and organized? Do the people there seem profesional, happy? How long have they been in business.

After reading TBN for a while, you should get a pretty good idea of what the right price is for your area.

You said they had a lot of subCUTs (2210's), did they have bigger machines or were they really a lawn maintence dealer who would just order the 4010/4110?

Cliff

 

[MikeFromVA]

I was in a similar situation about 4 months ago (shopping but a complete newbie). The Deere dealer pushed the SCUT pretty hard also. I believe that they must have a higher proifit margin than the CUTs. I was fortunate enough to drive a 4110 right after I drove a comparable Kubota (can't remember the model #). I did not like the quarter inching valve vs. positional control on the 4110. The 4110 rode nicer also. I would recommend it over the 4010 which might be a bit underpowered.

Also really think about the MMM before you spend the money. If it's for weeds and grasses, you might like the LX4 rotary cutter better - especially with all of the rocks that are poking out around there. The rotary cutter will be cheaper and hold up better when you hit a hidden rock or two.

You'll like the 4110 - make calls to other JD dealers and take a field trip to one that has one on the lot so you can give it a spin.

 

[keeney]

From your description, it sounds like a Front Loader would be high on the priority list. A heavier-duty rotary mower might also be more appropriate than a mid-mount. It also sounds like you need at least a 4010 or larger tractor frame for the ground clearance.

Some of the SCUTS have no roll bar. I'd be sure to get something with a roll bar. Based on the slopes you describe and various rocky terrain. Even if the low hanging limbs are annoying, its better than rolling the thing on yourself. You can always trimb the trees, but you can't always fix internal injuries from a tractor roll-over.

In terms of priority of $ spent:

1. The FEL. Clearly one of the most useful tools. Be sure to also get some forks to move all that brush and tree debris around. Don't forget a weight box or other ballast. The FEL can be used to grade the driveway or spread more stone. Not quite as efficiently as a rear blade, but you won't be maintaining the driveway as often as you will use the FEL for a lot of other stuff. One the 4110, I would go with the 54" bucket. I have a 60" bucklet on my 4100 (older version, very similar power to 4110) and the bucket is actually too big for that size tractor. You mention mucking out barns, so you might want to look at the smaller 48" bucket for that.

2. A rear rotary brush mower (not finish mower). Because the 3-point stuff is all standardized, this doesn't have to be the same brand as the tractor. You might find something cheaper (or better) in another brand or store or at least use the lower price to negotiate the JD dealer down a bit on this item. Just make sure its sized appropriately for the tractor. I would stick with new if you are not mechanically inclined, and I would stick with something from a local dealer/store who will honor their warranty. For sure get a quick-attach for this if you feel uncomfortable wrestling a 600lb chunk of iron onto the hitch.

3. Mid-mower (someday). If you do put in grass later, the mid-mower is the way to go for finish cutting. You can probably sell your riding mower to help pay for this item when you realize that maintaining one machine is easier and cheaper than two. based on the dryness you describe, finish mowing with the 4110 will work great without leaving ruts.

4. 3-pt Chipper (someday) to get rid of all that brush when burning is not possible.

5. Rear blade ( I'd personally probably skip it). Same issues on brands. Less useful, but could be nice for grading the drive. Does the fire break have to be bare dirt? The FEL can scrape off a 20' wide path easily enough (maybe 1 days work to go all around the house first time, much quicker after that).

I'd stay out of the swale. 2.5' deep x 2' wide could easily roll over any tractor. Maybe find an old sickle-mower to do it from the side?

- Rick

 

[Lotek]

Thank you to all who replied; your input is greatly appreciated. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cliff, the JD store was large, clean, well-stocked, and the personnel seemed professional. Even the service dept was immaculate. I was disappointed the salesman I spoke with was such a /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif. The NH store was .... um, small and rather 'down & dirty'. Both dealers have been in business here for >30 or 40 years and cater to the ag & construction industries far more than lawn & garden. They both had HUGE machines and SCUTs, but not much else.

Mike, I followed your advice & visited a different JD dealer on Monday, with much better results - a 4110 on the lot & ready to go. (Gee, I wonder why Dealer #1 didn't know about it???) This dealer has also been around since Noah came over in the Ark, and is a JD Gold Star store. The "salesman" I spoke with is actually the parts mgr .... that could prove to be a bonus. Will post his quote below. I plan to visit a Kubota dealer on Wed. to see what the 2410 is all about & how it prices out. BTW, what's the "real-life" difference between Kubota's live PTO & JD's independant PTO? The Kubota store also carries Massey, so I may take a peek at the 1428v, but I'm definitely leaning toward Green.

Rick, several have suggested a rear rotary mower instead of MMM. I'm leaning toward MMM because I want good maneuverability in & around the oak trees & granite outcroppings, and my property's prior owner recommended MMM (that's what he used here for 10 yrs). A rear mount would be more cumbersome than MMM, no? Too bad there's not a MMM as rugged as the rear mowers. Nope, the fire break doesn't need to be bare dirt - a buzz cut or close scrape would be just as good. I will certainly stay out of the swale! I'll do that with a weed-eater, but would like to get fairly close to the top edges w/the tractor.

The quote I got from JD store #2 for an '04 4110, FEL, MMM, & BB is $17,395 (incls all set up, 50 hr service, and delivery, but not tax):

- 4110 harvest return with 40.3 hrs on it, hydro, folding ROPS, filled R1s, dual SCV, Power Beyond, rear hydaulic outlet kit, IMatch hitch, spark arrester, 410 loader w/49" bucket, bucket level indicator, bucket hooks --- $15,370;

- Frontier 54" MMM --- $1850;

- Frontier 60" Box Blade --- $750;

- Less discounts (implements & dealer incentive) --- <$575>

Does the price seem fair, for CA???

 

[keeney]

The FEL may need more ballast. The filled tires and the MMM may be enough ballast, but the ground clearance with the MMM on will be poor. You will really want to remove the MMM when using the FEL for more than a quick chore, so you may want some kind of rear weight. Using the box blade as ballast tends to be slightly cumbersome.

I also still strongly recommend a fork attachment for the loader.

If the area has been historically mowed, a MMM will work as long as you don't get behind and let the weeds grow back into brush. It might take a little more maint on the blades and the deck will get beat up a bit when you hit those rocks. It is certainly much less cumbersome and can cut the lawn areas as well.

Is the JD "7-iron" version of the MMM deck available on that combination?

The 2nd machine with all the rear hydraulics sounds like you are buying a bunch of stuff you will not need unless you plan to add a backhoe and/or top-and-tilt for the box blade. It kind of offsets the savings from being a used machine.

- Rick

 

[MikeFromVA]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The quote I got from JD store #2 for an '04 4110, FEL, MMM, & BB is $17,395 (incls all set up, 50 hr service, and delivery, but not tax):

- 4110 harvest return with 40.3 hrs on it, hydro, folding ROPS, filled R1s, dual SCV, Power Beyond, rear hydaulic outlet kit, IMatch hitch, spark arrester, 410 loader w/49" bucket, bucket level indicator, bucket hooks --- $15,370;

- Frontier 54" MMM --- $1850;

- Frontier 60" Box Blade --- $750;

- Less discounts (implements & dealer incentive) --- <$575>

Does the price seem fair, for CA???
)</font>

Both of these would be good prices here in VA. I bought my 4110 in August w/ FEL - 60"MMM - 4'Cutter for a little over 18K. No 50 hour service included (which is worth over $400 from what I've read here). I'd snatch one of these two up before they are gone. Make sure to get the iMatch quick hitch too, it makes life much easier...

 

[Lotek]

Thanks again, guys. I really, really appreciate your opinions.

Rick, the rear hydrolic stuff is already on it - it was originally set up w/ a BH. The salesman said it would cost them less to leave it on & not charge me for it than it would for the 2+ hours labor to remove. Agree re rear ballast - I'll ask them to include it. No, the 7-Iron doesn't appear to be available for the 4110. Will likely get forks later - no need for them in near future.

Mike, thankee for the VA pricing info. I posted my Qs here because I hadn't found any TBN posts re CA 4110 pricing. The quote seemed good, so I put a refundable deposit on the tractor before I left the dealer. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif If I go ahead with it, the tractor would be delivered on 10/15 or so.

Now, can anyone tell me how to get the butterflys outta my gut??? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[MikeFromVA]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Now, can anyone tell me how to get the butterflys outta my gut??? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif )</font>


Simple, get some seat time on the tractor - butterflies will run away...

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Lotek, I sure am glad you were able to get a solution!! My wife just loved "her" tractor (sometimes I do manage to sneak the key away...!)

Try to read through the Owners Manual before you get it, as there are so many instances where you want to be sure ... Things like, If you are on uneven ground with a load, keep a hand on the stick and that way you can drop the loader down if it gets tippy.

At first, the wheel lugs require close attention, they eventually set well and are ok. You will be better off if the tractor already has some hours, as they will be settled down. But if they are still getting loose, get a wrench that fits, and a "cheater" pipe that will fit it's handle. That way you can snug them a lot easier. Not too tight, but you sure don't want that whell wobbling. It would be best to talk to a tech about this stuff, as they can give you pointers. But sing out, and we will be happy to help any way we can!