turbo vs non turbo - JD 3x20

[MikePA]

<font color="blue"> a gold member bashing the new guys forum. Mike you fit in this slot buddy.
</font>
No one is bashing anyone. I apologize that you took my post that way. I merely questioned why you started this thread the way you did, i.e., "we should get something clear." This statement assumes others are confused. Who? Understanding context is important to understanding what's been written.

Other statements follow that indicate you're reacting to someone you feel the need to correct. Perhaps this is just your writing style. In my first post I welcomed you to TBN and asked the simple question, that went unanswered, what prompted you to start this thread.

"it has been incorectly suggested that 1.) turbos are as reliable as non turbos, 2.) turbos will outlast a non turbo because they are not working as hard. these are flat out false statements and no one should be led astray." Suggested by whom? Again, you seem to be reacting to someone.

"to say otherwise is not only mechanically counterintuitive but just plain false." Who said this?

It's not until this message that you indicate you've ordered the non-turbo version of the tractor and were explaining why. Perhaps I'm the only one, but had your first post started out the way this posts ends, e.g.,

"I WOULD INVITE ANYONE WHO HAS SOMETHING TO OFFER REGARDING THEIR EXPERIENCES AND HOW THEY ARRIVED AT THEIR CHOICES REGARDING THIS LINE OF JD's TO RESPOND." Here's why I didn't order the turbo model....

it would have been a lot easier to undertstand where you were coming from.

 

[GeorgeC]

Seasalt.
When you spend 25-28K+ for a tractor, I really don't think we are looking at it breaking down in the near future.
If you have reservations about turbocharging, that's fine, buy the non turbo engine, but the rest of us welcome turbocharging..
I think I can speak for the rest of us by saying that the turbo "boogieman" just doesn't enter our thought process, and never will. We want the best power and trust that our engines won't grenade like a Top Fuel dragster blower explosion.. I'll also go out on a limb and say that most of us can handle the excessive responsibilities, like sitting for an extra minute for proper cooldown.
Personally, I can guarantee you that your fears are unfounded, so stop lecturing about something you feel that you are qualified to lecture about. Most of us simply do not care.

 

[seasalt]

Thanks JerryG, that is exactly the kind of information I (and others can use). Please keep it coming. Like I mentioned earlier, I may be familiar with the machinery, but this is the my first actual tractor purchase. The two are worlds apart.
Thank you for your time.

 

[seasalt]

Mike,

Appology accepted. Thanks. I felt anyone who read this forum would know the context. In looking back I probably got a bit overly righteous after reading some erroneous suggestions were offered to the membership. Doesnt matter much now so lets leave it. We are on a whole new (but same in name) reason for the post.

What is your experience? Please include what led you to your decision, not just how you feel about it now (most people are best at justifying things they have already done), although I would like to hear that too.

 

[seasalt]

GeorgeC,

a.) junk is available at all price points, so your point is of no comfort to anyone.

b.) I welcome turbocharging too - you are refusing to read what I have said (repeatedly).

c.) you think you can speak for the entire forum regarding whether or not people think about the cost benefit of turbos before buying? Hmmm.

d.) sarcasim on the out on a limb /cool down comment was also unnecessary and reduces your credibility.

e.) you can personally guarantee me my fears (???) are unfounded. Fears of what?

f.) If you feel this is a "lecture" and/or you just "dont care" (again you speak for MOST of the forum here), then kindly buzz off and let this discussion attempt to flow productively.

g.) notwithstanding the forgoing, I also invite you to offer something of real value in terms of your selection process or operating experience.

Thanks.

 

[hbaird]

I am in no way an expert and know very little about turbo's. But can't you get the same power with more displacement a lot simpler and perhaps with more reliability? As I understand it a turbo charged engine is more efficient at boost but less than normal off boost. For steady state high power, turbo's are great, for varying power conditions, not so great. Larger engines are typically heavier. This can be a problem for trucks and Porches, but seems less so for a tractor.
Harold

 

[jeffinsgf]

I may have made my decision for all the wrong reasons, but a few months ago, I went with the normally aspirated 4410 over a 3520. My decision had nothing to do with the turbo/non-turbo issue. In driving around in cirlces on the dealer's lot, I couldn't quite get comfortable with the hydrostatic drive. I also liked the layout of the dash on the older model better, and my dealer had a very attractive price on the 4410, since it was an ePR model when most people want a hydro. I actually did not even know the 3520 was turbocharged until long after I had purchased the 4410. The turbo did not get much of a workout going around in circles, and I did not think to ask the dealer to hook up a 4 bottom plow for my test drive. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I thought I would contribute the following to the discussion. The 4410, at 35 HP (29 at the PTO if I recall correctly) has all the power you could ask for in a tractor of this size. It is more than adequate for heavy duty rotary cutting. I have a chipper shredder and the tractor doesn't even change pitch when I feed in 5 inch limbs. I can pull a box blade overflowing with gravel, nudge the 3pt down a little and take even more in almost every gear and range (except transport -- I don't have the guts to try). I have pulled coffee table sized rocks out of the ground with 18 inches of soil on top of them with my backhoe. The hydraulics hit their limit long before the engine would ever start working harder.

My point is, for landscaping and maintenance of a small parcel (10 to 20 acres) all I would probably do with more HP is tear something up or hurt myself. The 4410 apparently is still available. In the new 3x20 series, it appears that it comes down to the 3320 as normally aspirated and the 3520 with the turbo, and both of them just the other side one way or the other of the power of the 4410. Adding the ever so slight power loss of an HST, I personally would probably go with the 3520.

Turbo vs. NonTurbo? Heck I don't know. My feeling is that Yanmar and Deere have designed both of those engines to work as they are designed and to do it for a long, long time. I might have been perfectly satisfied with 30 HP instead of 35. Now that I have 35, less might prove to be disappointing, and more seems completely unnecessary.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

A few observations...

Turbo complexity relating to machine's reliability. I work in a Dodge store. 1,000,000 miles on a Cummins without a major rebuild are the norm, not exceptional. The engines were designed for their configuration. Low end torque is NOT lacking...

The Yanmar 3TNV84T has already been field proven before showing up under a green hood. It has been available for some time and used in industrial and construction equipment applications. It was preceded by the 3TNE84T, and possibly other turbo engines...

I wandered over to Yanmar's site and peeked at the performance graphs for both the 3TNV84 and 3TNV84T. They look almost identical, except the scale is changed. Turbo owners should be experiencing a significant gain in boost over the entire rpm range.

The primary reason the the TNE series was replaced by the TNV is the increased stringency of emissions regulations. After careful study, I feel that the TNV series is slightly less efficient than the series that they replaced. Hence, Deere offering Turbo versions to overcome the power loss. The turbo's aren't gimmicks and should prove to be a very reliable and enjoyable setup.

A Deere buyer right now might still get the most bang for his buck if he can latch onto a 4410. The 3120 is a slightly detuned 4310 (3TNV84 vs. 3TNE84), the 3320 is slightly lower powered than a 4410 (3TNV88 vs. 3TNE88). If the other features are acceptable the 4410 would be the best buy of the bunch. Other factors to consider are whether the higher emissions are a problem, and altitude. At high altitudes, there is no denying that a turbo is worth every penny, even if it did mean higher maintenance and greater fuel consumption.

 

[hobbyfarm]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( the turbo "boogieman" )</font> /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Ohhhhhhhh, I'm skeerd.
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Egon]

Tristan Jones always complimented the Yanni in his last few books! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Egon