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  1. #21
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    Default Re: common practice or not ; what do you think ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Singalo View Post
    When it comes to "Tractors", I could not agree with you more. But I think most of us can agree that an X360 is a lawn mower. And the people buying lawn mowers are not necessarily savvey Tractor Buyers. Most non tractor people would not know any better. What in the way of reference would they have to be educated? You are going out to buy a Lawn Mower, it's not exactly rocket science. I personally think in this case, the dealer should take that into account, given the type of customer that they are dealing with.

    Likely, the reason they did not disclose the manufacture date is not merely because it makes no difference, it's because something that otherwise would not make a difference has a direct impact on moving the older lawn mower out the door. It was a conscious decision, not a misunderstanding. Just because it has no significant impact on anything does not make it ethical. The dealer could have simply explained to the customer up front why the manufacture date does not mean anything. But then the dealer runs the risk of the customer not wanting the older model anyhow. I see it as a conflict of interest.
    Maybe you're right, I just don't want to ascribe intent when I really don't know. I bought a bunch of lawn mowers over the years and don't ever remember asking what year any were made, I was just interested if they were "new" as in never used.

    I can understand someone not wanting a faded machine, weather damaged tires etc., but I will take a two year old tractor that has been sitting in a crate in a warehouse over one built a few months ago sitting on a lot, so for me, be it lawnmower or tractor, I go by condition.

    As mentioned, if that sort of thing is important to you, ask about it. You will often find year models marked on cars, trucks etc., but when have you ever seen it on a lawnmower or tractor or any piece of equipment?
    Last edited by TripleR; 02-12-2013 at 04:56 PM. Reason: sp

  2. #22
    Veteran Member GolfAddict's Avatar
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    Default Re: common practice or not ; what do you think ?

    Quote Originally Posted by TripleR View Post
    Maybe you're right, I just don't want to ascribe intent when I really don't know. I bought a bunch of lawn mowers over the years and don't ever remember asking what year any were made, I was just interested if they were "new" as in never used.

    I can understand someone not wanting a faded machine, weather damaged tires etc., but I will take a two year old tractor that has been sitting in a crate in a warehouse over one built a few months ago sitting on a lot, so for me, be it lawnmower or tractor, I go by condition.

    As mentioned, if that sort f thing is important to you, ask about it. You will often find year models marked on cars, trucks etc., but when have you ever seen it on a lawnmower or tractor or any piece of equipment?
    I don't think this is really a big deal, even though I'm sure it sounds like I'm making it a big deal. When I was farming, a tractor didn't even leave the farm till it was pretty much used up anyway, and I never thought about years and never expected to get squat for trade in.

    It just bugs me that dealers won't give even just some small token discount on a tractor that is a year old. I think it bugs me really just for the SCUT/CUT class rather than larger Ag or Construction class. Most of these buyers are not farmers or using it in their profession and do look at small tractors more like a car/truck purchase. Look how many folks here on TBN are trading and changing tractors all the time. I believe this same type buyer, in the used market, will definitely look at the year.

    Just look at JD x360 for example on tractorhouse. All those dealerships have the year on their listings. I really don't know why, but they have some reason for doing that. It's just another differentiating factor in a purchase decision - though hopefully buyers give it small weighting in their purchase decision.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: common practice or not ; what do you think ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GolfAddict View Post
    I don't think this is really a big deal, even though I'm sure it sounds like I'm making it a big deal. When I was farming, a tractor didn't even leave the farm till it was pretty much used up anyway, and I never thought about years and never expected to get squat for trade in.

    It just bugs me that dealers won't give even just some small token discount on a tractor that is a year old. I think it bugs me really just for the SCUT/CUT class rather than larger Ag or Construction class. Most of these buyers are not farmers or using it in their profession and do look at small tractors more like a car/truck purchase. Look how many folks here on TBN are trading and changing tractors all the time. I believe this same type buyer, in the used market, will definitely look at the year.

    Just look at JD x360 for example on tractorhouse. All those dealerships have the year on their listings. I really don't know why, but they have some reason for doing that. It's just another differentiating factor in a purchase decision - though hopefully buyers give it small weighting in their purchase decision.
    Sounds to me like everyone agrees that "It was not a big deal, and common Practice".

    I always have to be devils advocate though, and as you just expressed, many people actually DON"T know any better, that a manufacture date means very little. The only people that stand to lose anything is the dealer in situations like yours. You may not have taken the 2011 had you known, or you may have insisted on a 2012. I think it's pretty clear that the dealer has motive not to disclose. And since the coustomer may not be savvy enough to ask the year, or know that it's not important, I feel the onus is on the Dealer to educate, not to omit.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: common practice or not ; what do you think ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Singalo View Post
    Maybe the tractor didn't change from one year to the next, Maybe the price didn't change. But here is the rub. Why didn't the dealer disclose that the tractor was a 2011? Why didn't the dealer give the customer the option of choosing which one he wanted?
    Quote Originally Posted by Singalo View Post
    I always have to be devils advocate though, and as you just expressed, many people actually DON"T know any better, that a manufacture date means very little. I think it's pretty clear that the dealer has motive not to disclose. And since the coustomer may not be savvy enough to ask the year, or know that it's not important, I feel the onus is on the Dealer to educate, not to omit.
    I disagree. I think the dealer is absolutely obligated to tell the customer accurate information about the tractor, and there are definitely some omissions that are so relevant that the dealer would be dishonest not to bring them up. But the dealer isn't obligated to cut his own throat. Did you know that you could have bought the same tractor for $2000 less if you had walked out the door, waited until the 29th of the month, and then come back with cash in hand? That certainly would have been information that the customer would like to have had, but the dealer isn't going to give it up. Sure, the customer would like a fresh-off-the crate model with nary a fingerprint on it. But the dealer has stock to sell, and he's going to move older ones, and the reality is that they are in most every way just as good as the new ones, so there's nothing dishonest about the dealer not broaching the topic.

    If you think a 2011 tractor is worth less than the equivalent 2012 tractor, try holding out for a discount. Maybe you'll find that the dealer agrees with you and takes your offer in order to move stock. Or maybe you'll find that the dealer sticks to his price, and somebody else is happy to take the tractor for that price. If the tractor had faded paint and tires that were beginning to dry-rot, that would be a different story, but a year on the lot or in the warehouse is not going to hurt a tractor.

    Quote Originally Posted by GolfAddict View Post
    I really don't like that it is "common practice" to completely ignore the year of a tractor only when being sold as "new". I think the year of the tractor will have at least some weight to the value of the tractor from then on - for whomever first owns it "new" on forward -
    I disagree. Once the tractor leaves the lot, the only thing most folks care about is the hour meter. Obviously, if one year has different features than another, then that matters too. But if the feature-set is the same for two tractors, the fact that one is a year or two newer is irrelevant; the hour meter and the general condition of the tractor is all that matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singalo View Post
    It was a conscious decision, not a misunderstanding. Just because it has no significant impact on anything does not make it ethical.
    The dealer makes all sorts of decisions that benefit his business and cost the customer. If you walk in, take one look at the retail price tag, and say, "I'll take it," do you expect the dealer to say, "Hold on now, friend. I would have knocked 8% off the top the minute you blinked." No. He's going to take your money, shake your hand, and send you on your way. Lying about the model year would be one thing, but not voluntarily disclosing it is not unethical just because it benefits him and is not what you would have preferred. It's not unethical because the model year has almost no effect on the tractor's actual value.

  5. #25
    Veteran Member GolfAddict's Avatar
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    Default Re: common practice or not ; what do you think ?

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuabardwell View Post
    I disagree. Once the tractor leaves the lot, the only thing most folks care about is the hour meter. Obviously, if one year has different features than another, then that matters too. But if the feature-set is the same for two tractors, the fact that one is a year or two newer is irrelevant; the hour meter and the general condition of the tractor is all that matters.
    Well, you're probably right. My thinking is if two tractors have the about the same hours, same condition, etc., the newer one may have slightly higher value simply because of this market segment buyer's mindset. (Again, I'm talking small tractors) Maybe not, or the difference may be negligible anyway...

  6. #26
    Super Member Gary Fowler's Avatar
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    Default Re: common practice or not ; what do you think ?

    Sometimes it works out to your advantage. I bought an airplane once that the owner said was a 1974 model and was purchased in Venezuela. But when I got it to the states and was checking all the numbers and air directives on it, according to the serial number it was a 1975 model. I guess some things are also like cars, new model come out 6 or more months ahead of New Years day.
    2010 LS P-7010C 20F/20R gear tractor & FEL, 2009 Kubota B 26 TLB, RTV 900 Kubota,17 foot Lund boat with 70HP motor, 2012-20 ft 12k GVW trailer, 2011- 52" Craftsman ZTR mower, 2013 Ferris Zero Turn, 3 weed whackers, pressure washer, leaf blowers, 7 foot bush hog, 8 foot landscape rake , 8 foot 3 PH disc, 2 row cultivator, 350 amp Miller AC/DC welding machine and all the tools needed to keep them all repaired and running.

  7. #27
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    wisconsin
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    JD x360

    Default Re: common practice or not ; what do you think ?

    Many valad points have been brought up, but I do find it interesting that when a dealer sells a new riding lawn mower/ garden tractor they state ( like many here have ) that the year is not important but the condition and hours on it is what matters. When it is traded in (if ever) they will look at the condition, hours on it and the YEAR of the tractor to determine it's trade in value. Now when it comes time for them to resell it, they will always advertise the model year of the unit. For they know that in the consumers mind this does matter to many but not all. Interesting that at this point the year of the unit now factors in when reselling it. Is this just how the business works? and we must all just acept it.

  8. #28
    Silver Member JBourquin's Avatar
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    Default Re: common practice or not ; what do you think ?

    I'm too lazy to read through all the responses but what does the bill of sale say? Does it list it as a 2012 or 2011?

  9. #29
    New Member
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    Default Re: common practice or not ; what do you think ?

    Bill of sale only stated that the tractor was a x360 with no tractor serial number or year of tractor on bill.Yes I did not look at the bill better when buying.

  10. #30
    Silver Member JBourquin's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tractortime2012 View Post
    Bill of sale only stated that the tractor was a x360 with no tractor serial number or year of tractor on bill.Yes I did not look at the bill better when buying.
    I guess that could work either way. Anyways, I'd be looking for a new dealer. Maybe a call to the local media and/or paper to warn others about their shady business practices is in order. The media eats that ***** up..

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