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  1. #1

    Default Chain of command

    If a John Deere area represenative is stonewalling you and will not contact you about a problem,who do you call?
    What is the proper route to follow on a warranty problem if you can not get help from the local level?

  2. #2
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    3,179

    Default Re: Chain of command

    Farm Boy, Call in an ask for the Public relations people and query them for a name. They have been pretty helpful in the past. Call them and poke around for info, and make sure that you tell them you are not satisfied, whine squeal, cajole, do what ever you think is appropriate to get them to give you satisfaction.

    Ken Golden
    Manager, Public Relations
    Deere & Company
    309-765-5678

  3. #3

    Default Re: Chain of command

    I thought about parking the tractor along a road or putting it on my 16' trailer and making a sign(stating everything that has gone wrong in less than 2 years) to put on it and pulling it around town and doing a little advertising for John Deere.I have even thought about making my own web page exclusively about the tractor and its problems.

  4. #4
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    436
    Location
    Mississippi
    Tractor
    Kubota M-4900

    Default Re: Chain of command

    Farm Boy,

    Posting on this board is like running a full page ad in the Wall Street Journal. Word will get around. What kinds of problems have you had?

    TBone

  5. #5

    Default Re: Chain of command

    Well.......
    I bought the tractor new in June 2000.
    1. About March of 2001 differental lock failed and tractor would not start about 50/50 of the time,and bolt came off 1 common break pedal on the right side (hydro) dealer comes and gets the tractor,end up replacing hydro tranny,new differental lock,starter and fuel pump.They bring it home and I go out and still have problems starting it 50/50 time.
    2.Fall of 2001 it goes back to the shop for small leak in rear-end which was result of repairs in March of 2001.
    ALL OF THE ABOVE WAS REPAIRED UNDER WARRANTY

    3A.(April 2002)Tractor is in shop now(for new loader) and loss of power/loose wheel bolt problems and a blinker switch problem.....Come to find out brakes were seized up and rear end is torn apart and they are in the process of freeing the brakes up so they will not put a drag on tractor when running.
    THE ABOVE (3A) IS BEING REPAIRED UNDER WARRANTY
    B. Wheel bolts backing out of wheels,predominantly left side.When using the tractor for an afternoon(4 hours + or -)have to tighten wheel bolts up at least 2 times,last trip out I took hammer and wrench with me.John Deere is bucking me on this problem.Here is why acording to them........My tractor originally came with R-4 tires,last summer I bought R-1 tires and rims because the R-4's were not aggressive enough.I intalled the R-1 tires and rims myself.John Deere is saying one of the reasons they will not cover the loose bolt problem is because a John deere dealership did not install the R-1 tires.Well I had no problems with the bolts coming loose....and in the meantime my tractor had to go back to the shop and have the leak fixed.......So a John Deere dealer took the R-1 wheels and tires off and fixed the leak and reinstalled the wheels and tires, and everything was okay until this February (ish) and I started to have a problem with the loose bolts. The dealer comes down to put a part on and did not have the right tools,so I decided to order a loader in the mean time and the dealer says the parts(loader) will be in about a month and they will look at the loose wheel bolt problem and install the part(starting related part) when the tractor is in the shop they were not able to install in the field(lack of right tools)Also they are going to install a loader I ordered. Well I call my dealer the other day to see how things are going and he says ok,they are freeing the sticky brake problem up,but.........The John deere representative says John deere will not cover the loose wheel bolt problem,which now needs new axles, hubs and seals because the loose wheel bolts has damaged my tractor( Problem is I installed the wheels my self and did not torque)repairs unless John Deere decides otherwise.I figured it up I have spent a little over $30000 on this tractor and attachments so far and the tractors warranty will expire in June of 2002.
    Well I told John Deere they had the wheels off in the fall of 2001 and re-installed and I did not even have 50 hours back on the tractor before I started to have loose wheel bolt problems,when they fixed the leak.

  6. #6
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    436
    Location
    Mississippi
    Tractor
    Kubota M-4900

    Default Re: Chain of command

    I can understand why you are upset Farm Boy. Those kinds of problems out of what is supposed to be the "Cadillac" of tractors is terrible.

    I like John Deeres and probably would have bought one if I had a dealer close by, even though I do think they are overpriced.

    Deere got to where they are with a reputation for quality but I hope they realize that things like this can ruin that reputation in a hurry.

    I would encourage you to do whatever necesarry to make them fix your problem including taking them to court. Large corporations don't like bad publicity and they usually agree to do the right thing just before it becomes public. It's a shame you have to take such an extreme measure though.

    Good luck to you. I hope things get worked out.

    TBone

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    193
    Location
    Mexico City
    Tractor
    NH TC21D

    Default Re: Chain of command

    I'm not certain who you're speaking with regarding the loosening wheel issue, but it does not seem to be a manufacturer's (JD) problem. It could be a dealer worksmanship issue. I would speak with your dealer.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Chain of command

    Does,
    This sound like a dealer problem?????? Re: JD 4000 series wheel bolts [re: Farm boy] Reply




    Farm Boy,
    Maybe this will help.......
    18015
    I have had my 4300 for about a year now and have trouble with the wheel bolts on th elft side coming loose no matter how tight I crank them. Today I lost two bolts and the rest were very loose before I noticed. I remember reading that someone else had this problem. Has anyone else experienced this?Thanks for the input.


    TomG
    2000-07-17
    18028 I check the tightness on my wheels and loader about every month with a 2' breaker bar. I don't know if there is a particular problem with JD4000 series tractors, but checking wheel and loader bolts regularly is good practice. If the problem persists, I'd take off the lugs, clean and lub them, and then re-torque them. Keep in mind that the torque reading should be taken when the bolt is moving. If the problem really persists, my instinct would be to replace the bolts. If the threads have been stretched, the bolts may not seat as well.

    The last time I checked my tractor, I found several loader frame mounts loose. Hey folks, do that nagging little chore today! It's a lot easier to spend 15 minutes checking bolts than it is to replace broken parts.


    Tannenwald
    2000-09-10
    19674 I was EXTREMELY interested to discover this board and read this post. Our JD4300, with 170 hours on it, just had a monumental problem with this. Last week, while filling in a hole to bury a deceased pet horse, I noticed that the back end of the rototiller bottomed out in the sand. I asked a bystander what was going on, and he had me back the tractor up just a bit and get off it. Apparently, all 6 bolts in the left rear wheel spontaneously came out. The wheel was held on (and the tractor up!) by one remaining chewed up bolt. We found two of the bolts right next to the tractor, and another about 100 feet back on the path of a tractor. The other two may be laying in the dirt, or pushed into the hole, or who knows where.

    The dealer quickly sent out a service guy the next day (response accelerated due to the fact that the horse was not yet buried completely), who pocketed the bolts, retapped the wheel hub, and installed 6 new bolts. I asked him to check the other wheels, which were not loose at all.

    Now the dealer has sent me a repair bill, which I received yesterday, saying that this is not under warranty because the bolts are supposed to be tightened on the service schedule under the warranty. Despite the fact that we HAVE checked them (the manual says only to check every 50 hours past 100), and never was able to tighten them at all (not using the super-dooper torque bar he brought, but with a regular ratchet), supposedly Deere will not warrant this failure.

    Better yet, the service guy told me that a larger 4000 tractor they leased to a lumber yard had the same thing happen on the left rear wheel.

    I am arming myself to confront the dealer on Monday and it would be extremely helpful to get the details of any similar problems. Seems like there was a bad box of bolts somewhere on the assembly line....


    Ed
    2000-09-11
    19692 I believe this is a common problem, I have used my buddy's 4400 - and each time, he or I need to check the left rear for loose lugs.


    Doug Huebner
    2000-09-11
    19698 The dealer picked up the tractor and fixed the wheel bolt problem as well as a couple of others. He put new bolts and some griptight [or is it locktight?] It has not been a problem since - but I am still watching.


    Tannenwald
    2000-09-11
    19710 OK, moving along on this bolt issue: I talked to the other guy who bought a 4400 hydro from our dealer and had the bolts come off--3 of them--before he noticed. This happened to him between 8-10 hours of use, within the last month (imagine the dealer's surprise when I called them to say the wheel had fallen off MY tractor...). The tractor now has 40 hours and he has tightened them constantly with a 4-way wrench, but they kept coming out. He talked to the dealer who told him he had to put them on with an impact wrench! He tried that and kept breaking the bolts. So he is just in that tighten-every-freaking-time-you-start-the-tractor cycle. The dealer did not even give him the new bolts!

    The repair guy told me to tighten the things with a torque bar to between 65-80 lbs. I cannot find that range anywhere in the manual. Why would they tell me to tighten them with a bar when they told the other guy to use an impact wrench? This whole thing is making me scared to get back on this 20,000 piece of...ahem...machinery.

    The guy with the 4400 said they should have used left-hand threaded bolts on the left wheel, so that they would have the tendency to be tightened when the tractor is moving forward. What do you machine-oriented folks think of that?

    I am going to send the dealer and Deere a letter reference this matter, just in case Deere is not aware of the problem. Anybody who has experienced this phenomenon, please let me know, so that I can make the point that my situation was not just a freak occurrence.


    Bird Senter
    2000-09-11
    19714 A number of cars and trucks over the years have come with left handed threads on the lug bolts on the left side. The self tightening theory is good; at least in theory, but I've never been able to tell it really made any difference with lug bolts. And I've never had such a problem with lug bolts, but I do believe I would have to try some loctite on them. John Deere didn't by any chance produce threads that don't match properly, did they, i.e., male and female threads different coarseness or one metric and one SAE?


    Tannenwald
    2000-09-11
    19715 Interesting question about the potential difference in thread. Would a difference in thread account for why the left wheel is always the one to come off? No one is reporting problems on the right side, only the left rear. I kind of don't think so, but I am no mechanic. Just a horse breeder. The service guy did put loctite on the new bolts on the left wheel. Hopefully it will work.


    Bird Senter
    2000-09-11
    19722 Actually, I just can't quite imagine the threads being different, but I've seen weirder things happen in manufacturing. And I just can't imagine why the left rear wheel would be a problem and the others not be. So it was just a thought.


    ridge runner
    2000-09-12
    19747 MY 4300 CAME WITH THREE STRIPPED OUT BOLTS ON THE LEFT REAR WHEEL THAT WORKED LOOSE CAUSING WHEEL WOBBLE. PROBLEM WAS REPAIRED UNDER WARRANTY, NO CHARGE.


    Tannenwald
    2000-09-16
    19828 Ridge Runner, could you provide an email address? Thanks so much


    J.D. Braathen
    2000-09-16
    19840 I have just over 100 hours on my 4300. I have kept fairly close tabs on my lug bolts since I purchased this tractor a year ago. About two weeks ago I was very surprised to discover ALL of my left rear lug bolts loose. The wheel was chewed up a little which may cause a problem in the future, but for now it seems to be fine. I tightened them back up and it was work getting them back in (roughly 3-5 turns each). I checked the other side and they were PERFECT. I backed a couple off on the right side to compare the effort required to get them torqued down and I had no problem at all. At the time I chalked this up to a less than perfect seat on the left side rear tire (but I may have a thread problem). Looks like I need to jack up the rear end of the tractor and check it out. Seems like John Deere may have a manufacturing problem to address under maintenance for all of us.


    ridge runner
    2000-09-20
    19921 CONCERNING WHEEL BOLTS AND OTHER 4300 PROBLEMS. I WENT TO A JD SHOW LAST WEEK AND TALKED WITH 3 JD FIELD REPS ABOUT MY PROBLEMS AND THE FACT THAT MY WARRANTY RUNS OUT IN DECEMBER. THEY ASSURED ME THAT 4000 SERIES OWNERS WOULD NOT BE LEFT OUT IN THE COLD AFTER THEIR WARRANTIES RAN OUT. THAT ANY ENGINEERING PROBLEMS THAT SHOWED UP AFTER WARRANTY WOULD BE FIXED AT LITTLE OR NO CHARGE. I'M VERY HAPPY WITH MY 4300 AND ROLLIN' RIGHT ALONG. IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG IN THE FUTURE I'LL BE ON THE HORN TO JOHN DEERE. KEEP THE FAITH !


    Halsey Green
    2000-09-20
    19924 With the wheel bolt problems showing up
    , it may be to your advanatage and piece of mind to take a technique from the transit industry. Many now are painting index lines on wheel nuts and wheels after they are properly torqued. If one should start to back off, then the index lines will be out of alignment. This technique also permits a visual check and can be done each time you go to use the tractor. I have done this on my JD790, not that I have had a problem, but I do find the front loosening up on the front after extended use of loader.


    John Walsh
    2000-10-28
    20970 My dealer, after changing a wheel three times on the same machine ( not mine) figured out the problem. The flange was not a true 90 degrees to the shaft. The slow revolutions of a tractor wheel make it hard to detect, but the wheel was wobbling. Proper replacement and no more problem. I am off to check my own machine. I introduced the dealer to this message board.


    Paul Tegen
    2001-01-14
    23407 I have had this problem from day one. My dealer has worked on it three times under warranty, but it is a pain to have to deal with. I use wheel weights and it is impossible to just tighten the bolts up with the weights on. I am surprised by the number of people who specify the problem specifically to the left rear, yet Deere appears not to support the problem as a design issue. Between this and the poorly designed front end, this will teach me from buying a first year model ever again.


    keith metler
    2001-01-14
    23417 As soon as I read your problem regarding left wheel bolts loosening I checked the bolts on my 4100. The bolts are tight but I do see the problem you gentleman are having with your 4300s. It is obvious to me why the bolts are loosening do to tire rotation "rocking" the bolts loose. The wheel does not fit "tightly" around the hub which results in ALL the wheel load and forces (torque) to be transfered to the bolts- each and everyone of them. Because of a less than tight fit between the bolt diameter and its respected hole- there is a tendency for movement- everso slight- back and forth- up and down. The bolt "sees" this action as an unstable situation and during some of the cycling it tends to tightened to the wheel but during the MAJORITY of the cycling it rotates the bolt in the other direction (loosens). I have seen this problem from lawn mowers to race cars to airplanes. Putting in a left handed thread would solve the overall debate of which direction the bolt wants to turn. The real solution would be to: (1) machine a wheel to hub adapter which allows a snug (or better yet a compression) fit to the hub as the wheel is drawn in. This transfers static load to the wheel and not the bolts. (2) A beveled headed bolt and mated beveled wheel bolt hole like FORD trucks use that keeps each bolt in constant center with the hole which in turn resists torsional forces from loosening them. Naturally JD will ultimately suggest "easy fixes until the warranty expires, then its up to you to solve the problem once and for all. In the mean time retorqueing fatiques the bolts not to mention deforming the softer hole threads.


    Art White
    2001-01-15
    23431 I would make sure the threads are clean and than I would lock-tite them as offered earlier. They may have a poor hub to axle fit that allows the wheels some room to move if stressed. this is not normally a problem but yes you as a owner are supposed to check your wheels for tightness periodically.


    LilRhody
    2001-03-06
    25121 My 4100 HST has less than 23 hrs. on it and 5 out of the 6 left rear tire bolts fell out. The tire wobbled like a flat; got off to inspect and found that it was hanging on by the last bolt. Found 2 of the missing 5 within a few feet of where I stopped. I AM VERY DISGUSTED BY THIS! I am also very thankful that I caught it in time. Maybe we should start keeping track of how many JD tractors are have this left rear wheel problem?


    Steve in RI


    TomG
    2001-03-07
    25132 This sort of thing isn't uncommon. It's a good idea to check wheel stud tightness on a very regular basis--loader frame tightness as well. As an illustration, wheel stud tightness is supposed to be checked before operation of a NH farm tractor that is used as a snowmobile trailer groomer around here. A new operator didn't know that, broke several studs, and stranded to groomer in the middle of the woods. Anyway, I wouldn't be too hard on the tractor, JD or the dealer. However, tightening routines were not specified in my owner's manual (Ford 1710), and I think tightness checking should be speced as a part of maintenance routines. If they aren't, then maybe manufactures should receive a measure of blame.


    Tannenwald
    2001-03-07
    25133 I feel compelled to come back to this thread. When our 4300 lost all but 1 bolt out of the left rear wheel, our dealer came out to reinstall the wheel then sent us a bill. I investigated other 4000-series owners' complaints about the bolts in that particular wheel falling out and was amazed at the frequency at which that happened. One man, who bought from my dealer, had his wheel fall off not two weeks before mine did, with only about 10 hours on the tractor and frequent tightening. The dealer advised him he needed to put the bolts in with an impact wrench.

    Many other people I spoke with had the wheel bolt issue addressed under warranty. Still, I had a bill and the dealer and JD insisted the problem was due to my lack of attention to tightening the bolts (while we checked the bolts, we did not check them as often as some of the folks' whose wheels fell off).

    While still debating the wheel bolt issue with JD, our tractor developed another fatal problem. Seemed with current design, the battery was venting in the direction of the transmission coolant radiator, which caused the radiator to develop a hole. Even JD acknowledged that THAT should be a warranty issue, picked the tractor up, and put a different top on the battery so that acid fumes did not attack the radiator.

    The JD area rep, Brian Watts, and our dealer would do all of that warranty work "under warranty," at no cost, but would not bring the tractor back unless we paid for the wheel bolt call! Mr. Watts advised me that there is no record with Deere of wheel bolt complaints or repairs performed by dealers at no charge. He expressed surprise that I had identified so many people with similar problems. I referred him to this bulletin board. In response to my direct question, he told me my legwork would make no difference in my situation--I would still have to pay for fixing my wheel bolts.

    If John Deere truly has no record of these problems, why aren't the dealers who are treating the problems as warranty work reporting them to Deere? Something in this situation is not right. The prevalence of this problem with the 4000-tractors appears to be outside of the normal frequency. Whether the problem is design, paint behind the wheel, using right-hand screws when left-thread screws are appropriate, the wheel or hub not being round or properly aligned, or any other possible explanation being thought off, the wheel bolts are dropping out of these tractors.

    How do you get a company to institute a recall or issue a fix-it kit? How many people got injured by the loader falling off before JD sent out the little retention brackets? Does anyone have an idea of what it will take to motivate JD to address this problem? Could it be that JD REALLY doesn't have notice? I suggest that everyone who is experiencing or has experienced a wheel bolt problem with their JD tractor notify JD directly (not just the dealer) of that fact in writing, along with the resolution reached if any. Send a copy to your dealer and to Brian Watts. Something has to be done, or else we as a group are only going to be useful as plaintiffs' witnesses when someone is injured and sues JD. Let's try to get the problem addressed before someone--maybe on of us readers--gets seriously injured!


    Doug Huebner
    2001-03-07
    25134 I startedd this thread way back when and since it still appears to be active, thought I would give an update. As I mentioned, the dealer put in new bolts and used loctite [sp?]. I also used the suggestion above and put index marks on the bolts and wheel with a magic marker. After about 100 hours, no problems with the bolts. Other problems [which I will mention in a new post] but not the bolts. The dealer has been great about everything. ALthough he was the closest andhad the best price, it would be worth extra $ to buy from him based on the service I have gotten.




    LilRhody
    2001-03-08
    25180 Getting my 4100 back from the dealer on Thursday (03/08/01). Dealer claimed that the bolts just came loose. Rethreaded the hub and put in new bolts. Does not appear to be any long term damage. JD is paying the bill. NOTE: 22.9 hours on the meter...


    keith metler
    2001-03-09
    25245 As soon as I read your problem regarding left wheel bolts loosening I
    checked the bolts on my 4100. The bolts are tight but I do see the problem
    you gentleman are having with your 4300s. It is obvious to me why the bolts
    are loosening do to tire rotation "rocking" the bolts loose. The wheel does
    not fit "tightly" around the hub which results in ALL the wheel load and
    forces (torque) to be transfered to the bolts- each and everyone of them.
    Because of a less than tight fit between the bolt diameter and its respected
    hole- there is a tendency for movement- everso slight- back and forth- up
    and down. The bolt "sees" this action as an unstable situation and during
    some of the cycling it tends to tightened to the wheel but during the
    MAJORITY of the cycling it rotates the bolt in the other direction
    (loosens). I have seen this problem from lawn mowers to race cars to
    airplanes. Putting in a left handed thread would solve the overall debate of
    which direction the bolt wants to turn. The real solution would be to: (1)
    machine a wheel to hub adapter which allows a snug (or better yet a
    compression) fit to the hub as the wheel is drawn in. This transfers static
    load to the wheel and not the bolts. (2) A beveled headed bolt and mated
    beveled wheel bolt hole like FORD trucks use that keeps each bolt in
    constant center with the hole which in turn resists torsional forces from
    loosening them. Naturally JD will ultimately suggest "easy fixes until the
    warranty expires, then its up to you to solve the problem once and for all.
    In the mean time retorqueing fatiques the bolts not to mention deforming the
    softer hole threads.




    keith metler
    2001-03-09
    25246 As soon as I read your problem regarding left wheel bolts loosening I
    checked the bolts on my 4100. The bolts are tight but I do see the problem
    you gentleman are having with your 4300s. It is obvious to me why the bolts
    are loosening do to tire rotation "rocking" the bolts loose. The wheel does
    not fit "tightly" around the hub which results in ALL the wheel load and
    forces (torque) to be transfered to the bolts- each and everyone of them.
    Because of a less than tight fit between the bolt diameter and its respected
    hole- there is a tendency for movement- everso slight- back and forth- up
    and down. The bolt "sees" this action as an unstable situation and during
    some of the cycling it tends to tightened to the wheel but during the
    MAJORITY of the cycling it rotates the bolt in the other direction
    (loosens). I have seen this problem from lawn mowers to race cars to
    airplanes. Putting in a left handed thread would solve the overall debate of
    which direction the bolt wants to turn. The real solution would be to: (1)
    machine a wheel to hub adapter which allows a snug (or better yet a
    compression) fit to the hub as the wheel is drawn in. This transfers static
    load to the wheel and not the bolts. (2) A beveled headed bolt and mated
    beveled wheel bolt hole like FORD trucks use that keeps each bolt in
    constant center with the hole which in turn resists torsional forces from
    loosening them. Naturally JD will ultimately suggest "easy fixes until the
    warranty expires, then its up to you to solve the problem once and for all.
    In the mean time retorqueing fatiques the bolts not to mention deforming the
    softer hole threads.




    keith metler
    2001-03-09
    25247 As soon as I read your problem regarding left wheel bolts loosening I
    checked the bolts on my 4100. The bolts are tight but I do see the problem
    you gentleman are having with your 4300s. It is obvious to me why the bolts
    are loosening do to tire rotation "rocking" the bolts loose. The wheel does
    not fit "tightly" around the hub which results in ALL the wheel load and
    forces (torque) to be transfered to the bolts- each and everyone of them.
    Because of a less than tight fit between the bolt diameter and its respected
    hole- there is a tendency for movement- everso slight- back and forth- up
    and down. The bolt "sees" this action as an unstable situation and during
    some of the cycling it tends to tightened to the wheel but during the
    MAJORITY of the cycling it rotates the bolt in the other direction
    (loosens). I have seen this problem from lawn mowers to race cars to
    airplanes. Putting in a left handed thread would solve the overall debate of
    which direction the bolt wants to turn. The real solution would be to: (1)
    machine a wheel to hub adapter which allows a snug (or better yet a
    compression) fit to the hub as the wheel is drawn in. This transfers static
    load to the wheel and not the bolts. (2) A beveled headed bolt and mated
    beveled wheel bolt hole like FORD trucks use that keeps each bolt in
    constant center with the hole which in turn resists torsional forces from
    loosening them. Naturally JD will ultimately suggest "easy fixes until the
    warranty expires, then its up to you to solve the problem once and for all.
    In the mean time retorqueing fatiques the bolts not to mention deforming the
    softer hole threads.




    keith metler
    2001-03-09
    25248 As soon as I read your problem regarding left wheel bolts loosening I
    checked the bolts on my 4100. The bolts are tight but I do see the problem
    you gentleman are having with your 4300s. It is obvious to me why the bolts
    are loosening do to tire rotation "rocking" the bolts loose. The wheel does
    not fit "tightly" around the hub which results in ALL the wheel load and
    forces (torque) to be transfered to the bolts- each and everyone of them.
    Because of a less than tight fit between the bolt diameter and its respected
    hole- there is a tendency for movement- everso slight- back and forth- up
    and down. The bolt "sees" this action as an unstable situation and during
    some of the cycling it tends to tightened to the wheel but during the
    MAJORITY of the cycling it rotates the bolt in the other direction
    (loosens). I have seen this problem from lawn mowers to race cars to
    airplanes. Putting in a left handed thread would solve the overall debate of
    which direction the bolt wants to turn. The real solution would be to: (1)
    machine a wheel to hub adapter which allows a snug (or better yet a
    compression) fit to the hub as the wheel is drawn in. This transfers static
    load to the wheel and not the bolts. (2) A beveled headed bolt and mated
    beveled wheel bolt hole like FORD trucks use that keeps each bolt in
    constant center with the hole which in turn resists torsional forces from
    loosening them. Naturally JD will ultimately suggest "easy fixes until the
    warranty expires, then its up to you to solve the problem once and for all.
    In the mean time retorqueing fatiques the bolts not to mention deforming the
    softer hole threads.




    Ted Kennedy
    2001-03-09
    25252 Keith, I'm not sure what you mean about the wheel not fitting tightly to the hub all around. Do you mean that there is a gap between the mating surface of the wheel and the axle hub's mating surface? If this is the case, why can't the wheel's mating surface be spotfaced parallel to the hub's plane? It seems like this would be faster and cheaper than making an adapter and would ensure an intimate full face contact, as long as there is enough material thickness in the wheel. The other thought, are the wheel retention bolts all normal (at right angle) to the hub when tightened. If not, then the hub is also at fault and the rotational forces exerted on the threads as the wheel turns will also contribute to loosening.


    Roger L.
    2001-03-09
    25253 I've been following this thread with a lot of interest. I've been around long enough that I hope I can speak my mind without offense. And what I am going to say is this:
    This wheel loosening problem is dangerous, but instead of fixing it themselves the owners seem to be waiting for JD to do it for them. Instead of waiting for JD to do something, I think that we should fix it now. This should be very simple for the engineers on this list.



    JeffM
    2001-03-09
    25260 Keith, thanks for your detailed diagnosis of this problem. I have not noticed any loosened wheel bolts on my 4400, but most of the 40 hours on it so far have been backhoe work, which I presume wouldn't tend to loosen the lugs as much. This spring I start a lot of landscaping and mowing work, so I'm concerned. Do you all think that this a situation where Loctite and proper torqueing will do the trick, or is that quick fix just a lesson in futility? This thread has increased my vigilance on this important safety issue, thanks again to all on this board that contribute their experiences. And, Roger, don't worry about causing offense. You're one of the contributors that I respect the most on this board for your honest, helpful opinions and color-blindness. I constantly strive (not always successfully) to keep my impulsiveness in check and rise to the high standards that you, Bird, Murf, TomG, Ted, and others set on this board.


    Ted Kennedy
    2001-03-09
    25261 Thanks Jeff. It's good to hear sometimes.


    Brent B
    2001-03-09
    25288 I'd like to add a little bit of information to the bolt loosening issue.

    Yes, you'll find tapered lug nuts that mate with tapered wheel hubs on some
    vehicles like cars and pickups, and they do a great job. but many other
    applications just use a bolt or nut to clamp the wheel tight against the
    hub.

    The semi wheel nuts I'm familiar with incorporate a belleville washer with the nut that keeps a preload on the nut so it doesn't loosen. The wheel is not
    piloted tightly on the hub at all. All loads are taken through the clamping
    load the nut generates, and the friction force developed between the hub and
    wheel.

    Other appications such as farm and construction equipment use bolts to clamp
    the wheel to the hub, and again they rely on the friction force to carry the
    vertical loads and the torque loads due to forward/backward movement. A good
    bolt design tries to have 1.5 times the bolt diameter of clamping length. This is defined as the distance from the head of the bolt to the first thread. This
    distance lets the bolt shank stretch as it is torqued to again provide preload.

    Paint can cause low hour loosening. Paint on the rim and hub faces can extrude out, causing the bolt torque to relax which can loosen the bolts. That is why trailer manufacturers recommend retorquing the bolts after a short time of use. This usually solves the problem.

    Left hand vs. right hand threads make no difference on the typical 6,8, or 12
    bolt pattern. If you look at the forces acting on the nut you'll see they
    there is no torque load going to the nut. The nut only sees sliding loads due to vertical and axle torque, and prying loads due to side loads. If the
    clamping load is high enough then there never is any motion to cause loosening. Left hand threads would be appropriate if the nut were on the hub axis.

    Ways to solve the loosening problem are:
    1. Use grade 8 bolts, and go to higher torques
    2. Use longer bolts and put hardened washers under the bolt head to get the
    1/5 x stretch length. Soft washers will extrude under the bolt head and are
    a waste of your time.
    3. A poor third choice is to clean and oil the threads before torquing the
    bolt. This will reduce the friction loss at the thread so that the bolt actually clamps tighter. This method is unpredictable, though.

    I have no clue why the left side tire has more complaints on this board. Perhaps a malfunctioning torque wrench at the factory?

    Brent


    Roger L.
    2001-03-09
    25302 Great stuff Brent. Thanks for taking the time to lay it out so clearly. Of course this might be because I agree with every technical point that you bring up - and wish I had said it half so well. And if you are wrong, then we are both wrong together. I do recognize that there is some debate on the LH vs RH threads - and would surely like to look at a good theory, but in quite a few years I've not encountered any that stood up well.
    Some owners report that dealers are recommending fixing this by putting higher torque into the existing bolts. This makes me realize that we had better come up with a legitimate fix before someone does get hurt. I think the next step is to actually examine the assembly, so I'll try to get out to the dealer next week. Maybe a couple of other guys can do the same and then we can discuss some possible remedies. BTW, if JD is listening into our discussion, then I would welcome them to jump in here about now. Many of us have a private email address in these message headings and it would be much more effective to work with JD providing assistance.



    TomG
    2001-03-10
    25304 A couple of thoughts: First, I was surprised to find myself included in Jeff's list--Thanks! Second, an explanation for the left wheel problem might be that most people are right handed and they tend to make right turns. That would put the left wheel on the outside of turns most times. Like others, I'm not sure a good fix is simply use higher torques. I think there are max torque specs for bolts. Locktight sounds OK if it does work, but I'd want to use the type that doesn't have to be heated to remove it. I think the idea of using a higher-grade bolt should be used judiciously. A higher-grade bolt may have higher max torque specs, but the hub threads may be the limiting factor. Besides, if the bolt is stronger than the hub threads, then the hub might be stripped instead of the bolt. To Brent's very good list I'll add that the thread itself is a variable. The total area of the thread that is in contact affects a bolt's holding power. Different thread pitches and forms, and of course bolt length, affect how much contact is present. On the other hand, a thread with a lot of contact might not be a very strong bolt. I guess these sort of things are typical engineering design saw-offs, and contemplating thread forms may be more interesting than useful. But, I do this sort of thing. I know it's hard to be delighted by a bolt, but I came close when working on old British motorcycles. They used Whitworth thread form. It was strong, and seldom stripped, cross-threaded or seized. It was also expensive to manufacture and of course no longer exists. The Whitworth form had a high efficiency (i.e. the percentage of the thread in contact) and probably would work fine in a JD4300. However, interesting or not, the situation does seem to be a safety issue, and defining an owner fix would be desirable until a manufacturer fix is determined.


    Tannenwald
    2001-03-10
    25316 Roger asked why we are all waiting for JD to fix the problem. The reason that I, for one, am "waiting" for JD to fix this is that it is their responsibility to fix it. I am not a mechanic--far from it. I was sold an expensive tractor which was supposed to be safe, designed for users like me (complete tractor neophytes), and appropriate for me to use on my small horse farm. Safety from having integral parts of the tractor spontaneously fall off is presumed, particularly when normal maintenance routines are followed. I look at this no differently than buying a car--do you also assume it is your responsibility to reengineer your car? The point is, in all of my contacts with John Deere (the dealer, the area rep, the customer service rep who had to put a fire under my dealer to even get them to service my tractor), JD has consistently maintained that they do not know anything about the wheel bolts falling out. That is the company line. Someone just said something about coming up with a solution until the manufacturer develops one. The manufacturer is NOT WORKING ON THE PROBLEM. The manufacturer claims that it has never heard of the problem. Until we take it upon ourselved to provide irrefutable notice to JD of this problem, that will continue to be JD's position. I think there is more than one issue here. The first, what can we do to keep from being injured?; the second, how do we motivate JD to correct the problem? Altering the design of the tractor, in the way the wheels are attached or any other way, may void your warranty and negate a claim if you ARE injured. I used to practice law, so I know something of what I speak.


    keith metler
    2001-03-10
    25324 As soon as I read your problem regarding left wheel bolts loosening I
    checked the bolts on my 4100. The bolts are tight but I do see the problem
    you gentleman are having with your 4300s. It is obvious to me why the bolts
    are loosening do to tire rotation "rocking" the bolts loose. The wheel does
    not fit "tightly" around the hub which results in ALL the wheel load and
    forces (torque) to be transfered to the bolts- each and everyone of them.
    Because of a less than tight fit between the bolt diameter and its respected
    hole- there is a tendency for movement- everso slight- back and forth- up
    and down. The bolt "sees" this action as an unstable situation and during
    some of the cycling it tends to tightened to the wheel but during the
    MAJORITY of the cycling it rotates the bolt in the other direction
    (loosens). I have seen this problem from lawn mowers to race cars to
    airplanes. Putting in a left handed thread would solve the overall debate of
    which direction the bolt wants to turn. The real solution would be to: (1)
    machine a wheel to hub adapter which allows a snug (or better yet a
    compression) fit to the hub as the wheel is drawn in. This transfers static
    load to the wheel and not the bolts. (2) A beveled headed bolt and mated
    beveled wheel bolt hole like FORD trucks use that keeps each bolt in
    constant center with the hole which in turn resists torsional forces from
    loosening them. Naturally JD will ultimately suggest "easy fixes until the
    warranty expires, then its up to you to solve the problem once and for all.
    In the mean time retorqueing fatiques the bolts not to mention deforming the
    softer hole threads.



    kay
    2001-03-10
    25328 Just so readers of these messages don't get completely the wrong impression, all JD 4300's do not have a bolt problem. Obviously a few do, and hopefully they will keep their nuts tight. Mine are, and I check them often!


    Tannenwald
    2001-03-10
    25329 That is an important clarification--not all have the problem. Also, not ONLY 4300s DO have the problem--tractors in the whole 4000 series have been affected. Does the fact that some have a problem and others don't indicate that it is more of an individual defect--like a bad fitting wheel--affecting many tractors, as opposed to an actual design issue?


    Jim Reichard
    2001-03-10
    25336 I don't own a 4000 series John Deere but I do own a 790. I have a question maybe some one can answer and maybe some insight. How well does your bolts fit in their threads ? When you screw the bolt in about 4 threads can you rock the bolt up and down with any movement at all? They are several Industrial standards for thread fit and every standard uses a go, no-go gauge. what we see in industrail equipment is that same rotation of shafts can cause bolts or nuts to loosen ,Left tire rotating foward loosen. Right tire rotating foward tightens bolts or nuts. It may be more of a problem with the 4000 series if they are useing a .001" over size tap for easy assembly which some companys do for reasons such as.1 easy to align and starting. 2 less chance of gauling. 3 the tap as it wears cuts under size so you can tap more holes for less money before it doesn't meet spec. Besides in there Eyes its only a tractor not some thing that travels at 55 MPH . I do service repair on CNC Machining centers and robtics used in making of everything from microwave housings for cell phones to the robitic arm on the space shuttle And see many different types of production problems and some of their so called quick fixes such as over sized taps more times than I care . I feel if this is indeed whats happening than ART is right . That I would use locktite to keep them from backing out .And if J.D. recalls them then get them swapped. In the mean time locktight them and check them every 10 hours. THANK YOU! JIM


    Roger L.
    2001-03-11
    25354 I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm enjoying all the theories - though I still don't see one that convinces me. One thing I am convinced of is that any way I can help a wheel stay on the machine would be more important to me than worrying about potential warranty issues from changes that I had to make......but I'm thinking that may not be the general feeling. Comments??
    So I'm still bent toward coming up with some remedies which owners can apply or not as they wish. It may be that we can fix it even if we don't understand why it is loosening.
    Yes, apparently it is not all 4300s; some do and some don't. Other models show this from time to time, and it isn't just JD either. JD does have a lot of visibility. For me it is because I hold them to a higher standard.
    As for needing LH threads on the LH side, I'm still not buying it in general. One of the problems I have is that I'm looking at 8 cars, trucks, and tractors in front of my house that don't have this problem and all of them are RH thread without any center hub support. Still, I gotta admit that I sure would like to know what would happen if someone with a wheel that always loosens would please drill and tap some left-handed threads in the hub just as an experiment. Who knows, you could end up being famous!



    TomG
    2001-03-11
    25355 Jim: Good comment about oversized tap holes. The idea is similar to my thinking about thread forms etc. An oversized tap hole sure is going to reduce the thread contact and allow a bolt to loosen more easily under stress. I imagine it also would reduce max torque specs. Given your comment about some production lines starting off oversized so taps can be used longer, I wonder if the JD changes the taps at set intervals. If, for example, the taps were changed daily before 1st shift, then the problem should be more apparent among tractors made early in the day. I doubt that production line maintenance is as regular as 'daily at the same time', but it might make a decent case if everybody with a problem found they had a 1st shift tractor. I don't know about JD, but the production shift ID is built into the serial number on my Ford 1710. I never understood how shift information could be useful, but now I can take a good guess.




    Brent B
    2001-03-11
    25362 It would be interesting to know how many people have had them loosen more than
    one time. I'm also curious if those people who did have them loosen more
    than once use their tractors hard at high drawbar levels. For instance,
    do these tractors tend to have high grip ag tires, and do you use it
    in low gea that causes the tires slip a lot? This will put a lot more torque
    into the bolted joint.

    I really baby my 4200 with turf tires, and rarely use the loader in "A" range
    because I don't want to slip the tires, and I don't want to put that much
    force into the loader structure. In 110 hours I've had no bolt loosening.

    If you can stand another bolted joint design rule, One bolt diameters worth
    of thread engagement will not strip out with grade 8 bolts in mild steel. Also
    the first 3 threads of the engagement carry most of the load.

    Regards,

    Brent


    Ted Kennedy
    2001-03-12
    25381 Thanks to BrentB for the excellent explanation of how bolts and threads work, moreover, thanks to Jim Reichard for his observations too. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the problem is closely related to Jim's observations. I, too, have seen this loose bolt thread to tapped hole condition far too many times on assemblies made for aerospace by Asian manufacturers. And judging from the incredible number of posts regarding what I see as manufacturing shortcuts or poor QA by Deere suppliers I'm inclined to believe the poor thread scenario. With the wheel off, engage the first third of the wheel bolt threads and wiggle. If it does wiggle excessively (side to side delection as great as half or more of the bolt diameter) chances are you've found your problem. You might try new/different bolts for a better fit. As far as a fix, locktite is the economical solution, anything else requires some potentially expensive fixes depending on why the fit is loose, especially if it is in the hub threads.


    JeffM
    2001-03-12
    25388 This is a great thread! Talk about getting below the surface and raising some potential root causes for this problem. I am planning to swap my rear tires this spring to get a wider stance. When I do, I will check for the freeplay as described by Ted and Jim. I also plan to clean the threads, use Loctite(tm), and make index marks on the bolts and wheels. Is it worth it to put longer bolts and hardened washers in as Brent described? I'll probably pass on that the first try and see how things work out. At least with the index marks I can easily observe loosening. Thanks to all the contributors on this one!


    keith metler
    2001-03-12
    25422 I have a jd4100 with only 36 hrs and no wheel problems. Here is a simple remedy for my friends with loose wheels (or those who wish not to have loose wheels). I suggest installing longer bolts thru the hub and installing stop nuts, I have plenty of room on the back side of my hub for these.


    keith metler
    2001-03-12
    25424 I have a jd4100 with only 36 hrs and no wheel problems. Here is a simple remedy for my friends with loose wheels (or those who wish not to have loose wheels). I suggest installing longer bolts thru the hub and installing stop nuts, I have plenty of room on the back side of my hub for these.



    Roger L.
    2001-03-12
    25425 Keith, I didn't get out to JD to look at the wheel mounting system yet. One of the things I was wondering was whether I would find room to thread on a nut on the threads protruding through the hub. I assume that a slightly longer bolt might be required. Basically I like your idea, but I'd like to kick around the following thought.... I'll start with some known bolt theory and then pose the question.
    When you torque a bolt you are placing a combination of tensile and torsional stresses on the bolt. This combination adds up to a greater stress than either one alone. When you quit turning the bolt, some of the torsional stress is relaxed. Now if the bolt was clamping down on a frictionless surface all of the torsional stress would be relaxed once you quit turning the bolt. In that case you would end up with the friction of the threads holding the bolt shank in a state of pure tension. In the real world, some of the torsional stress is "trapped" into the shank of the bolt because of the bolt face friction. I think (hope) that we can assume that the engineer has calculated all of these stresses and more before he decided on which bolts to use to hold the wheel on the tractor.
    That's it for the theory; now for the question: If you use a little longer bolt and then tighten a nut onto the threads protruding from the back of the hub - How are the bolt stresses affected?



    JeffM
    2001-03-13
    25449 Roger, sounds like a question for Brent - I cramped a brain muscle just reading it!


    Jeff Golden
    2001-03-13
    25461 OK. I'll bite on this one. The portion of the bolt in tension would normally be the part that is outside the threaded hud, the shank as mentioned by Roger. This is the section of the bolt between the underside of the head and the first thread on the hub; equal in length to the thickness of the wheel material. This assumes the whell material doesn't signifcantly compress due to the force of the bolt head. The threaded portion of the bolt engaged in the hub isn't in significant tension, as it cannot change length due to being locked in by the threads. If you add a nut to the backside of the hub (using a longer bolt), you might stop the bolt from turning back out of the hub, but I don't think you'd add to the stress on the bolt shank. The only section of the bolt that would be stressed when the nut is torqued would be the small section between the backside of the hub (were the long bolt exits) and the underside of the nut adjacent to the hub. It might stop the nut from coming loose, but doesn't address whatever is the root cause of the nut loosening issue. It would be a band-aide; though probably an effective one.

    Or maybe not!!??


    keith metler
    2001-03-13
    25479 Roger, since no one has posted problems regarding bolt failure, just cases of bolt loosening, I am not going to concern myself with bolt dynamics. Especially with a system with a gross weight of less than a ton and speeds of 5mph. I do not have a problem with my jd 4100 but if I do in the future I will add longer bolts and back them up with lock nuts. I originally posted my theories on why bolts were loosening and I continue to believe in them. As for why only the left wheels are falling off- lets look inside the rear gear box. I think the ring gear is offset to the left side which means the left wheel drive line when compared to the right has a shorter distance to the engine. This suggests it "feels" more torque forces than the right wheel. This only suggests why the left loosens and not the right, but it does not excuse the reaction.


    Roger L.
    2001-03-14
    25483 Thank you JeffM, JeffG, and Keith for reading and thinking about the question. I wanted to see what others thought about Keith's "nut on the back" idea, and also give myself some time to think it through. After letting the ideal ferment for a day I still like it.
    It ought to please some of the "lefty loosey" theorists as well, because if I understand their argument correctly then they would also argue that the forces that loosen a wheel bolt on the outside of the wheel would cause the nut on the inside of the hub to tighten! I hope I get a reply on this...
    Keith, I agree that the problem is bolt loosening, not bolt failure. I brought up bolt failure because I disagree with the dealers who recommended to solve the problem by overtightening the bolts.
    I also think that the nut on the back locks in much higher torsional stresses. I think that the stresses in tension would add up would depend on the thickness of the hub and the fit (class) of the threads.
    All in all I think is is worth trying. Use conservative torque. Perhaps only put the longer bolts with nuts on half of the positions. Use hardened washers - always! Surely it is much better than having a wheel come off! If I see something wrong with the idea when I get out to the dealer I'll be sure to post it.



    TomG
    2001-03-14
    25486 I sure am enjoying this thread. I just got a very roughly formed idea, a question really, that may not even qualify as a contribution. I'm thinking that a nut on the backside of the hub is likely to change the dynamics of something. Since the nut and bolt head are pulling in opposite directions, maybe the threads in the hub would be partially unloaded, and then the friction of the bolt and nut faces would be mostly what keeps the bolt from backing out. I also wondered if it's possible that the nuts would change the structure of stress on the hubs in a way that would make the hubs more prone to failure. I don't know about these things, but I do know that sometimes really innocuous things can substantially alter the nature of a system.


    Jeff Golden
    2001-03-14
    25490 I am not aware of too many bolted joints in which the bolt is both threaded into a member and backed up with a nut. This is overkill, but it's a good idea in this case; not knowing exactly what forces that are in play causing the bolt loosening on the JD wheels. I've had a JD 4300 since Xmas (my wife says it's all the presents I get for the next 20 years) and have been keeping an eye on the wheel bolt situation. Though I haven't put a torque wrench to them, I have not observed any loose bolts on any wheel. Granted, I've only cleared snow and done some light loader work during the 20 hrs of use thus far.

    Just a thought...is there any correlation between the type of tire used and the bolt lossening? Is it noted more on higher traction tires (R1 / R4) than turfs?


    LilRhody
    2001-03-14
    25491 I posted earlier about my 4100's left rear wheel falling off due to loose bolts. I have turfs; plus I kept two of the bolts that I recovered from the "near catastrophy". It appears that the threads either melted or were cross-threaded when installed. I know this is not as technical as the previous posts, but, I have a hard enough time just trying to pronounce '"' never mind what the heck it means!


    P.S. For what it is worth, I can try and post some close-up pixs of the damaged bolts.


    Greg franklin
    2001-03-14
    25501 My 870 did the same thing. My theory is this. Threaded fasteners loosen due to relative motion, i.e. parts moving relative to one another. Since all the surfaces involved are flat and perpendicular to the axle, clamping forces alone are what prevents any relative motion. Keep in mind that the wheel center hole is significantly larger than the boss on the hub to which it mates (in terms of the relative motions involved) so it is not providing any assistance in preventing motion. These mating surfaces are also painted and it may be that these high clamping loads are "extruding" the paint or making it flow if you will and hence relaxing the clamping loads to the point that relative motion begins. As was noted earlier, look at the conical mating surface between the nut and the wheel in an automobile. This geometry would absolutely prevent any motion. Also I have noticed that the back of the wheel is always periodically relieved or has contact points which are small enough to effectively penetrate the paint and make positive metal to metal contact. I have not had my tractor wheel loosen since and maybe it is because of the high torque I am applying along with the paint curing and hardening. My experience is limited here so I am not sure.


    TomG
    2001-03-18
    25609 Brent: Thanks for the rule of thumb that a grade 8 bolt won't strip the threads in mild steel, provided that at least 1 bolt diameter is threaded into the steel. Guess the rule holds for castings as well as other forms of steel. I was vaguely aware of the risks of indiscriminant use of high-grade bolts in castings--a real disaster if the threads in the casting strip. It's good have a decent rule of thumb. I'm not trying to resurrect this thread, but I did neglect to extend my thanks earlier.


    Brent B
    2001-03-24
    25798 I'm glad to contribute back something to this board. If this thread continues,
    it would be good if those people having problems could tell the tractor model, tread type, and how aggressively they use their tractor.

    regards,


    Brent


    RichS
    2001-05-14
    28163 I just received a new JD4300 HST and worked with the FEL last sunday pretty hard all day (approx. 5-6 hours). Total hours on machine 12.5 and checked the wheel bolts prior to the work and all were tight. By the end of the day they were loose enough to turn with my fingers. They had the black mark on one bolt on each wheel, which generally indicates they had been torqued. I had still checked the tightness with 1/2" ratchet but not with a torque wrench. Is anyone else still having problems with the left rear wheel bolts? Also did anyone get JD to acknowledge a problem? Thanks for your input. -Rich


    Dane
    2001-05-15
    28189 Here is a crazy airplane solution. I have six rather expensive and very important bolts holding the propeller on my airplane, an almost identical arrangement to a wheel. The heads of the bolts are drilled through. After tightening them all down, you safety wire pairs of them together. The safety wire for each pair of bolts is installed so that it is pulling on the bolts to hold them tight. If you have to remove the wheel, you just cut the wire and remove the bolts. This solution not only works on my plane, but it keeps muffler bolts on my Toro snow blower from vibrating loose. The wire is stainless steel, so it never rusts and it costs about $5 for a one pound spool which is enough to last a lifetime. E-mail me if you want more info.: dane.deal@worldnet.att.net


    Roger L.
    2001-05-15
    28198 Dane, it makes sense to me. But I suspect that it would have to be done by the owner. It would be a rare manufacturer who would be willing to admit the mistakes in their own designs in this fashion. Much as I like JD, I do not think that they are that bold.


    JeffM
    2001-05-15
    28200 Dane, not a bad idea, but it would take me forever to drill the heads of the bolts with a small enough bit. Maybe if I had a machine shop? Anyhow, the bolts on my 4400 have never loosened, unless it was something the dealer caught last summer when I had it in for some warranty service. I've used it mostly for loader work this past year, but only have about 50 hours on it. I still check the bolts regularly, but so far, so good.


    Doug Huebner
    2001-05-15
    28202 It seems like ages since I made the first post in this thread. Must have hit a popular / troublesome subject. Since putting locktite on the bolts and marking them with a magic marker to tell if they moved, they have not moved at all. Ohter things have fallen apart but the bolts are still holding.


    TomG
    2001-05-16
    28244 I still have a spool of safety wire around. Had to use wire for some of the hardware on my old Econoline Van kingpins--back in the days when even 1/2 tons had front axles. Got a piece of it on my tractor now. The steering drag link arm fell off the second day I had my used tractor. Seems like somebody didn't know how to put steering knuckles back together. Never did find the cotter key and it took my wife throwing sticks for the dog to find the nut. Didn't have a cotter key the right diameter so I resurrected the old safety wire. It is a definite experience to realize that the only way you're going to get the tractor back up the drive is to hold the steering arm on with your toe. What I really wanted to say is that if anybody was really interested in using safety wire (in manufacturer approved applications of course), a safety wire bolt or other oddity probably can be found. A dealer once said something like: 'Well, bring in the bolt and I'll see if my bolt man can identify it when he comes through.' There are people whose specialty is selling hardware, and they have huge catalogues with almost unimaginable numbers of different bolts.


    RichS
    2001-05-16
    28246 I will probably go with the loc-tite route before the safety wire route, but thanks for the idea. If I was going to have to go to that extreme with a brand new 20K machine they can have it back and I will go to a different color! I have already put loc-tite on the other three wheels' bolts. Right now still waiting for JD to get back to my dealer on whether it will be covered on warranty or not. Thanks for the feedback. -Rich


    RichS
    2001-05-18
    28337 Followup: My dealer just got back to me and JD is going to warranty the wheel. It is on the way from the factory now. Dealer told me to go ahead and put loc-tite on the bolts. Just NOT the "have to heat to get off" stuff. Thanks all for the responses.
    -Rich


    Roger L.
    2001-05-19
    28356 I'm sure that the following is not the case with JD, but it gives an idea of the kinds of mistakes that are possible. I just got through working on a tractor that had the Ag tires replaced with turf tires. The wide turfs required different wheels, and the complaint was that the tractor "felt wrong". The problem was that the new wheels were designed to use conical head wheel bolts to fit down into the tapered bolt holes in the new wheels. By now you've probably guessed it....the dealer apparently didn't have any of the new bolts so he used the existing standard hex bolts and lock washers. These had worked fine on the old Ag wheels with a flat center hub, but there was no way they would ever stay tight on the new wheels.


    RichS
    2001-05-21
    28400 Kind of wants you to do all maintenance yourself... Mine has the conical head bolts and wheel to match. I put loc-tite on the bolts (blue stuff) and worked it pretty hard this weekend. Didn't loosen one iota.
    Thanks all for the help...


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    Post Extras:

    RoyJackson
    (Gold Member)
    04/11/02 01:48 PM
    Re: JD 4000 series wheel bolts [re: Hillbilly] Re



  9. #9

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    193
    Location
    Mexico City
    Tractor
    NH TC21D

    Default Re: Chain of command

    Sounds to me like a large number of people don't check their lug torques. Isn't it interesting that your problem did not show up until after your wheels were R & Ied? Any time that bolts are threaded into cast iron, this can be an issue (speak with owners of older Harley bikes). Two ways to fix it...1 - bore through the cast material & put a nut on the other side (not really practical in this case), or 2 - use the loctite & mark methods.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Chain of command

    Yes,
    What is even more interesting is they apparently did not check the ones on the left side !!!Geesh...........LOL

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