What is E-Hydro?

[jenkinsph]

Mechanical window regulators do break down. As for the electronics, it only gets better. The tractor is not totaled, new technology replaces the old electronics in it.

I've had the technology debate before. The best science can give us physical comfort when you think about it. I'm not completely knocking it, heck I made a living in science but science is getting out of control today, it has become the new God and I'll be the first to admit it.
This is why the world is running to gather up all the energy resources. Industry is a product of science from the first Wedge wood dishes that made the middle class think they could achieve royalty man has been hooked and has clung to technology.
I'm sitting here looking at my solar meter that indicates that my house is running completely from the sun, I like to reflect back to 1950 when we got our first TV, technology and its complexity have multiplied 100 fold since then but are we better people? I think 'better' is a relative term and we'll be better when we don't bomb each other. That hasn't changed since the beginning of recorded history.

My two cents,

Rob

Rob,
I think the issue I have with technology today is the short useful life of most of the electronics we buy. I find it irritating to try to buy a battery for a two year old cellphone and have some young person tell me that they don't have one for the "old" phones. When this happens with more expensive items such as tractors it can be a big deal.

I will acknowledge that electronics have improved by leaps and bounds in my lifetime. My concern is with the overall longevity of hard goods this seems to be a problem area.

 

[looknlearn]

This type of discussion comes up quite often with cars. The result always seems to come out asking the question, "Do you prefer today's cars or do you want to go back to a model-T?"

Me, I would want the model T. None of our vehicles that I can remember has the AC worked. The one we have now has heat but the fan only works on high. The problem is electrical. If it was mechanical I probably would have fixed it. By the time cars are cheap enough so we(meaning our house) can afford them most of the electrics are shot. With the old cars with levers and dampers, it was a matter of WD-40 and duct tape.:laughing: Sure the newer cars have ABS, power locks, power windows, remotes, airbags, DVD players, heated seats, security systems, backup cameras, and button starts, but old cars you didn't have to get two tow trucks to take it to the dealer because the security system locked up everything including the wheels.

My tractor now, only has an electric start because someone went though the trouble of putting electric on it at some point in it's life.

We know someone who had an old rotory phone as of three years ago. They had that phone as long as we know them before that. In the past few years we have gone though three digital phones. They don't make things like they used to.

I tried for a time to get into electronics but after getting shocked real bad once and failing to fix things I gave up. Now I just give it to my brother and he can fix electrics for me. Mechanical things is what I understand.

Sorry for my rant, but I just get frustrated that new stuff last a very short time and the only thing you can do is by a new one.

 

[arrabil]

The one we have now has heat but the fan only works on high. The problem is electrical. If it was mechanical I probably would have fixed it.

You know, to me the wiring is mechanical. A wire and a battery and a relay in between is what I like to call "electrically mechanical." Its trivially simple. When it fails, the fix is almost identical to fixing something wrong with the caliper or the glovebox. Same with a window motor. There is nothing to a window motor. A few years back I took apart all the motors (wipers and windows) on my 25 year old car and refurbished them. They will last another 25 years now.

Its when "logic" is added to the electronics that everything goes to crap. When the lights stay on for 20 minutes after I shut off the truck, when the heated windows only heat for 10 minutes, when the security system decides I did something wrong, when I push the window button to the second point and the window goes all the way down by itself, etc. Its what goes on in those chips inside the modules that are the problem. That is where the unbearable complexity comes into play for me.

And I even went to college for that and understand how to fix it. But the added layers of complexity make me not trust it.

 

[Rob-D]

Rob,
I think the issue I have with technology today is the short useful life of most of the electronics we buy. I find it irritating to try to buy a battery for a two year old cellphone and have some young person tell me that they don't have one for the "old" phones. When this happens with more expensive items such as tractors it can be a big deal.

I will acknowledge that electronics have improved by leaps and bounds in my lifetime. My concern is with the overall longevity of hard goods this seems to be a problem area.

Steve,
What's worse is that the life of designs keeps getting shorter and shorter. LP's lasted from Edison until the 80's. Now the pundits are saying CD's are a dead musical format with 85% of manufacturers focusing on digital downloads. Now buy a song and it gets downloaded to your Zune.
Fortunately tractors change a little slower. How long will the ehydro be around? How dependable is it? I can answer the latter, a new car today can run a dozen microcontrollers with little if any problems. Transmission switch electronically through sensors and fuel injection systems have been running quite a long time on electronics.

Here's an example. Porsche and Audi used to run on a system called 'K' jetronic. It worked OK but not great. It had a mechanical distribution pump that would clog and fail especially if you got water in the gas. They went to something called 'L' jetronic which was a computer that turned on individual injectors in each cylinder. If you got water in the line it didn't stop the car. It might chug a little until it blew the water out, it was a great injection system.
We've been running on things just like 'L' jetronic for years. They're much better than carbs, don't have finicky chokes and are much more fuel efficient.
The mechanical system that we call eHydro might be different than a cars automatic but the principle is the same and basically bullet proof.

Rob

 

[Rob-D]

You know, to me the wiring is mechanical. A wire and a battery and a relay in between is what I like to call "electrically mechanical." Its trivially simple. When it fails, the fix is almost identical to fixing something wrong with the caliper or the glovebox. Same with a window motor. There is nothing to a window motor. A few years back I took apart all the motors (wipers and windows) on my 25 year old car and refurbished them. They will last another 25 years now.

Its when "logic" is added to the electronics that everything goes to crap. When the lights stay on for 20 minutes after I shut off the truck, when the heated windows only heat for 10 minutes, when the security system decides I did something wrong, when I push the window button to the second point and the window goes all the way down by itself, etc. Its what goes on in those chips inside the modules that are the problem. That is where the unbearable complexity comes into play for me.

And I even went to college for that and understand how to fix it. But the added layers of complexity make me not trust it.

Arrabil,
Whether we like them or not microcontrollers are the future of electronics. Virtually everything we own runs on them from the power supply in your TV to your cell phone. 99.9999 % of the time they are flawless. They reduce the number of circuit parts dramatically and in a sense the complexity of circuits.

25 years ago if I wanted to drive an LED display I would have to incorporate 20 to 30 chips to do it. Today I use one microcontroller and 15 minutes of programming, the cost and parts count difference is remarkable.
I think we worry about our dome lights not working properly but I have yet to have one fail.
I used to design circuits and out of the hundreds of circuits I sent out to customers I never had one chip fail, not one! 20 years ago if I wanted to update a circuit I had to redo the circuit board. Today I update the firmware, that's it, end of story. Hard to beat, cost the customer less and it's just as, if not more, dependable.
eHydro, I love it, may it reign forever. Today I had to do some tricky maneuvering dumping loads of stone over a wood pile. I could have used the 990 with the manual box but it would have never done it as fast or with such ease.
Rob

 

[arrabil]

Rob, I don't disagree with your assessment in the least. The problem for most people, I think, is that this stuff is getting so complicated electronically and so tiny physically that it now requires a degree and a whole different type of tool kit to work on it.

With the mechanical stuff, I can grab a beer, work the linkage a couple dozen times, fire up the welder, and fix or change what I want. With the new stuff, I'd better start with an oscilloscope and a couple chip programmers and then a microscope to see the electro-mechanical device at the end of the chain.

 

[looknlearn]

The thing is, the new stuff works great and flawless and saves time and effort, but for those who can't afford the new stuff and have to settle for second hand stuff, the electrics is shot.(reason for all the computer carcases in my attic)
That is probobly one of the reasons I like mechanical things, it doesn't work so I wiggle it, spray it with some WD-40, rub off some rust and it works!

You know, to me the wiring is mechanical. A wire and a battery and a relay in between is what I like to call "electrically mechanical." Its trivially simple. When it fails, the fix is almost identical to fixing something wrong with the caliper or the glovebox.

The problem with car is, is that we had it fixed and it only worked for a short time before we would have to replace that expensive part again and we decided it wasn't worth it. We tore out the alarm because it went off and you couldn't stop it. The electric locks quit some time in there also and we still have to replace acting-up sensors. It gets frustrating and I give up.

 

[Rob-D]

Rob, I don't disagree with your assessment in the least. The problem for most people, I think, is that this stuff is getting so complicated electronically and so tiny physically that it now requires a degree and a whole different type of tool kit to work on it.

With the mechanical stuff, I can grab a beer, work the linkage a couple dozen times, fire up the welder, and fix or change what I want. With the new stuff, I'd better start with an oscilloscope and a couple chip programmers and then a microscope to see the electro-mechanical device at the end of the chain.

Yes, I hear you too, that's why I live in both worlds. I have my metal lathes, welder and plasma cutter and the Tektronix scope. I don't really like surface mounted devices but my articles are running in that direction because the industry is. I either go along or get left in the dust. Nobody trouble shoots down to the component level like we used to when I was a kid working in the local TV repair shop. But, as far as I know, there are no more TV repair shops, now you change the entire board or get a new set.
Audio is different so I'm starting to do some designing in that area. Audiophiles live in the past for a lot of things but I can't fault them as I think tubes beat the pants off transistors on the preamp side. Heck these guys are still buying turntables and vinyl is going strong!
Tractors are a mix for me, they have both worlds, I love the beef of the thing but I love the modern trannys too.

Rob

 

[RoyJackson]

Do any of y'all still use rotary phones.

Yes, I do...why do you ask?

 

[WV John Deere]

In looking at used tractors I see the term E-Hydro. Whats is it and is it worth having, are there any issues with it?

The term "E-Hydro" is simply JD's name for their current hydrostatic transmission option. E-Hydro means an electronically controlled hydrostatic transmission. I have a 2010 model 3520 w/ cab and that was the only transmission I could get with the cab. I would have prefered the shuttle shift for some work but, when it comes to mowing grass and loader work, the E-Hydro is great.

No troubles yet with it.