Large JD CUT questions -

[timb]

A couple of questions for the "big" JD owners -

1st - for the folks who run a large-frame JD 45x0-47x0, the 460 loader, and R1 tires. Do you have any problems with the front R1's during heavy loader lifts?

I think the manual states that the (optional?) 8-16 R1's have a max pressure of 28psi and load capacity at that pressure of just 1360 lbs. each. The standard R4 fronts have a far higher rating. It would seem that with the base tractor front weight, the loader and bucket itself, and anything near the load limit - most or all of which I would think ends up on the front axle - puts you way over the carrying capacity of the factory R1 tires. Closer to double the limit. For my particular mix of intended uses I think I would really prefer the R1's but it seems like there could be a concern with the front tires. (The rear R1's ratings seem to be plenty high for that end.) What's the real-world experience the R1's?

2nd - adding front weight. When running heavy 3ph implements (without the FEL) how much weight have you had to add to the front end? According to JD, up to 420 lbs (840 lbs with the weight extension) can be added - nearly all of which is needed for something the size of an MX6 rotary cutter. Since the extension bracket can't be left on when the loader is mounted - do you have a problem with a light front end (or does everyone tend to leave the FEL on all the time? )

Thanks for any help!

 

[JerryG]

Timb,
I don't have a large frame JD, but I do have a 33 hp MF 1250. My tractor came with Firestone 7-16 front tires. They were four ply. I don't think that they should ever put 4 ply tires on any tractor with a loader. By the end of the first year, both front tires were falling apart interiley. Firestone worked with me on the replacement and I now have six plys. The six ply have been on for I guess about 700 hours and still are in good shape.

 

[BillyP]

Tim,

I have a JD 4610 MFWD with FEL. I use a JD 616 cutter without the FEL or front weights without any problem. Before I got this tractor I had a JD 4600 2WD without FEL. On that tractor I had to use front weights when bush hogging.

On the R1 tires, I've had both R1s and R4s, I prefer the R4s. I use this tractor to mow my yard too and the R4s don't leave lug tracks like the R1s. The best I can tell, the 4s have as good traction as the 1s but it all depends on where you're going to be using it.

Billy

 

[rancar]

Tim....

I bought a JD4710 with the 460 FEL and R1s in May, 2002. While I haven't had it all that long, I've used the FEL to move some large stones and stumps. I'm not sure if I was at the carrying capacity of the FEL...it seemed like it a few times. However, I DID NOT notice any apparent difficulty in the performance or durability of the front R1 tires nor any undue stress on the front axle.

I will add though I mentioned this to my dealer when purchasing the tractor. I just thought the wheels looked somewhat small for the size of the tractor. The dealer assured me that in actually these wheels are a bit bigger than ones used by other manufacturers and that JD has not received any consumer complaints on this issue. From personal experience, neither have I experienced any problem. You raise a good point though about the weight limits for each tire at maximum pressure and this is an issue I want to investigate further myself. Thanks.

.....Bob

 

[timb]

I've been mentally leaning toward the R1s over the R4s, but I don't really have any experience with an R4 tire to compare.

Far as I've been able to tell from tons of posts here and other sources, the only advantages the R4's have are - undeniably sturdier and more puncture resistant, especially for the fronts - and maybe better on the lawn. (I've seen some varying opinions on that last item). For flat-out traction in dirt, mud, or snow it sounds like the R1's usually come out ahead.

I haven't been too worried about R1 "damage". We've cut most of the yards/fields around here for years with an F1/filled-R1 equipped 2wd Ford NAA. That tractor, set up the way it is, is pretty close to the same size/weight/footprint of a bigger CUT. We've never had any real issues running across the lawn. On my in-laws place the really close in areas are cut by a push mower or small JD rider. Some day I'd like to get some sort of ZTR for the "good" lawn (when I put that in) - up till then I don't think I'll have too much concern over R1 lawn damage.

So for all the million other jobs I've got - I like the R1s - if they're up to the heaviest load work.

While we're talking load limits - anyone notice the limits on the axles listed in the JD information? Again, they don't seem to be rated to handle the everyday tractor setup. For instance at the rear - the static tractor weight plus the effect of the 3ph at or near it's limit. Obviously these tractors are out there working everyday, but some things don't seem to add up.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Tim, I think you have it pretty well figured out. The R1's do provide better traction with the possible exception of dry pavement. The load carrying ability is less with R1's then R4's but that should not be an issue for you. Run the front R1's at maximum pressure and you will be fine. JD has it figured out, the loader may be able to "overload" the fronts, that condition will be temporary at worst and the definition of "overloaded" needs to be more fully examined. I suspect that if you plan on filling the bucket up to the max with heavy material, driving at maximum speed for a long period of time to the point where heat will be a problem, then you will be in an overloaded condition. For typical tractor use, this is not a problem. For years we have been running our Kubota L4850 with R1's 20" diameter wheels with a loader that can obviously load the R1's to the point they look like they are quite low on air. They have held up fine since 1992 and were replaced last year from lack of tread, not from breaking down. If its traction you want, the R1's are the choice, for multipurpose use, the R4's work well but traction in wet material will be considerably less then R1's. R4's are usually heavier in ply rating, my front R4's, 16.5" go to 65 psi, I cannot overload them. Rat...

 

[timb]

(I originally posted this on the tale end of a JD vs NH discussion - but rather than hijack that thread I've redone it under this one.)

(By the way thanks for the tire info guys)

A question for the JD experts - a fair amount of comments are made about JD's 4x10-series electronics and wondering about potential long-term issues.

I can see all the electronic-based features in use on the hydro models, but other than the electrically-triggered PTO and 4WD - how much electronics <font color=green>get in the way</font color=green> /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif of the PowrReverser equipped (not the e-PowrReverser used on the mid-sized JD's) large-framed JD 4510-4710's? I'm all in favor of the KISS approach especially when it comes to tractors and not all that excited about too much gadgetry.

Do both the gear and hydro versions use the same central "CPU" / "OS" / wiring bus or are the gear versions using relatively simple and established (independent?) circuitry for those two (PTO/4WD) functions?

(Still rather have just simple basic mechanical engagment controls for those functions - it may be just me, /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif but an extra layer of electronics and complications just don't seem to bring anything to the table in those cases.)

 

[BillyP]

"Do both the gear and hydro versions use the same central "CPU" / "OS" / wiring bus or are the gear versions using relatively simple and established (independent?) circuitry for those two (PTO/4WD) functions?"

The PTO/4WD are independent of the controller. They work the same way as trucks have used for years (push button 4WD).

Something else I learned from another forum:

"First the PTO switch is the same one that has been used on the 4500-4700. Most of the other switches are the same general design as the cruise control switch that was used on the 4000 series. The only switch that looks new to me is the MFWD control switch. All the other switches have been on tractors and exposed to the weather for some time and I am not hearing of any problems here or from John Deere owners I know.

Also, I have learned from a mechanic that the only switch required to be in place for the eHydro to work is the PTO switch. If the PTO switch is not in place the safety interlock won't let the engine run, but all the others can be missing and the tractor will still drive--you just lose the functions that the switch activate."

Billy

 

[rancar]

Tim....

I'm not a technician and not all that familiar with the wiring and electronic controls that JD has built into my 4710 other than what I read in the operator's manual. But, from an operating perspective my sense is they've tried to build these controls in to simplify operation of the tractor. And from my own experiential perspective, I think they have done a fairly good job with these electrical component modifications....at least I have noted no deficiencies in anything during the time I've owned the 4710. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

.....Bob

 

[dmccarty]

timb,

I have a 4700 with a 460 4n1 bucket and R1s. The 460 only
comes off the tractor when I have to do oil/fluid changes.

I have moved many a 36 inch oak stump some of which could
just barely be moved by the tractor. By barely moved, the
FEL could just and I mean just get the stump off the ground
enough for the tractor to get enough traction to move. The
FEL could only lift so far and then no more. So the FEL was
out its limits.

Doing this I MIGHT see the front tires compress. I have seen
the front tires really compress but that was after some A..Hole
had let alot of the air out of the tire. With proper inflation
I can't say I have ever had problems.

I have about 393 hours on the tractor at this point and much
of it is picking up brush, trees, dirt, stumps, limbs, etc. I mow
maybe 6 times a year with an MX6 and its about time to put
on the backhoe. The tires are worn but I think it took 200
hours or so for the rubber lines to wear off the tires. [smiles]

I can imagine leaving the FEL off the tractor.... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I
always need it even when mowing. I have used the 4n1 to
"cut" branches that where in the way of mowing and it real
nice to put the bucket a few inches off the ground when
cutting tall grass/weeds. With the bucket down and going
slow it helps keep the MX6 from hitting rocks, stumps, logs,
etc.

Later,
Dan McCarty