Hydraulic Oil Intervals for JD and other Manufacturers Tractors - Do not get it...

[eagle107]

I constantly read on the forum and other forums that people are changing their hydraulic oil on new tractors at 100 hours, 50 hours or even less and it seem to be for any type of tractor make: JD, Case, NH, Kubota, Kioti and etc. Then many people state that after the hydraulic oil change, the oil looks clean. My question is why are people doing this? It just seems like a waste of oil, especially seeing how expensive hydraulic oil is these days. I am thinking that the oil should be able to be used for a lot more hours and the hydraulic oil filters should be able to trap most of the contaminants in the oil; thus the reason for the hydro filter(s).

Now I am no experts in oils, but my neighbor is a automotive store owner and states that hydraulic oil is more of a cleaning fluid and the oil can be used at longer intervals than people think. He even goes as far as saying that you can wash you hands with the oil. I am not sure about that, but the hydraulic oil does seem to stay pretty clean.

Also, as long as I can remember growing up, we hardly ever changed the hydraulic oil in our Ford 1710, 1725 and NH TC33D tractors. When we got our first HST NH TC34DA tractor, the only thing we needed to change at the first 50 hours was the HST filter. That is the same thing we did for our NH Boomer 3040 HST tractor. All these tractors we have owned, we never had any major transmission issues. In addition, my other neighbor (who is not very maintenance conscious) did not change his hydraulic oil in his NH TC40D HST tractor till last year; he has been running that tractor for 9 years and never had a transmission issue with his tractor. My uncle is just about to change his oil in his JD 3520 after 450 hours and he has been using his tractor for seven years with out any issues. I have a new JD 4520 and will not change the transmission oil in it until it is 6 years old or till it has 400 hours on it. The new JD X748 says to change the hydraulic oil at 50 hours, but I will likely only replace the hydraulic filter and leave the oil alone, seeing the oil has been hardly using yet and just seems to be a waste to change it. Even my NH and JD dealers tell me that is what they recommend to do and they do the same thing with their own tractors; they never seem to have an issue either. I am I missing something here, I am I too old school or are people too paranoid about these hydraulic oil change intervals?

 

[Ken]

I constantly read on the forum and other forums that people are changing their hydraulic oil on new tractors at 100 hours, 50 hours or even less and it seem to be for any type of tractor make: JD, Case, NH, Kubota, Kioti and etc. Then many people state that after the hydraulic oil change, the oil looks clean. My question is why are people doing this? It just seems like a waste of oil, especially seeing how expensive it is these days. I am thinking that the oil should be able to be used for a lot more hours and the hydraulic oil filters should be able to trap most of the contaminants in the oil; thus the reason for the hydro filter(s).

Now I am no experts in oils, but my neighbor is a automotive store owner and states that hydraulic oil is more of a cleaning fluid and the oil can be used at longer intervals than people think.

Also, as long as I can remember growing up, we hardly ever changed the hydraulic oil in our Ford 1710, 1725 and NH TC33D tractors. When we got our first HST NH TC34DA tractor, the only thing we needed to change at the first 50 hours was the HST filter. That is the same thing we did for our NH Boomer 3040 HST tractor. All these tractors we have owned, we never had any major transmission issues. In addition, my neighbor (who is not very maintenance conscious) did not change his hydraulic oil in his NH TC40D HST tractor till last year; he has been running that tractor for 9 years and never had a transmission issue with his tractor. My uncle is just about to change his oil in his JD3520 after 450 hours and he has been using his tractor for seven years with out any issues. I have a new JD 4520 and will not change the transmission oil in it until it is 6 years old or till it has 400 hours on it. The new JD X748 says to change the hydraulic oil at 50 hours, but I will likely only replace the hydraulic filter and leave the oil alone, seeing the oil has been hardly using yet and just seems to be a waste to change it. Even my NH and JD dealers tell me that is what they recommend to do and they do the same thing with their own tractors; they never seem to have an issue either. I am I missing something here, I am I too old school or are people too paranoid about these oil change intervals?

I'm in agreement with the longer space for oil change the filter should grab any floating material. have also a 4520 now 1800 hours only problems is metal line bursting going to quick disconnect connectors. and when hearing a high pitched whine in steering a new hydro filter quiets it down.
Did once change oil less than 1000 hours poured oil into filter paper it was clean.
ken

 

[Gary Fowler]

I constantly read on the forum and other forums that people are changing their hydraulic oil on new tractors at 100 hours, 50 hours or even less and it seem to be for any type of tractor make: JD, Case, NH, Kubota, Kioti and etc. Then many people state that after the hydraulic oil change, the oil looks clean. My question is why are people doing this? It just seems like a waste of oil, especially seeing how expensive hydraulic oil is these days. I am thinking that the oil should be able to be used for a lot more hours and the hydraulic oil filters should be able to trap most of the contaminants in the oil; thus the reason for the hydro filter(s).

Now I am no experts in oils, but my neighbor is a automotive store owner and states that hydraulic oil is more of a cleaning fluid and the oil can be used at longer intervals than people think. He even goes as far as saying that you can wash you hands with the oil. I am not sure about that, but the hydraulic oil does seem to stay pretty clean.

Also, as long as I can remember growing up, we hardly ever changed the hydraulic oil in our Ford 1710, 1725 and NH TC33D tractors. When we got our first HST NH TC34DA tractor, the only thing we needed to change at the first 50 hours was the HST filter. That is the same thing we did for our NH Boomer 3040 HST tractor. All these tractors we have owned, we never had any major transmission issues. In addition, my other neighbor (who is not very maintenance conscious) did not change his hydraulic oil in his NH TC40D HST tractor till last year; he has been running that tractor for 9 years and never had a transmission issue with his tractor. My uncle is just about to change his oil in his JD 3520 after 450 hours and he has been using his tractor for seven years with out any issues. I have a new JD 4520 and will not change the transmission oil in it until it is 6 years old or till it has 400 hours on it. The new JD X748 says to change the hydraulic oil at 50 hours, but I will likely only replace the hydraulic filter and leave the oil alone, seeing the oil has been hardly using yet and just seems to be a waste to change it. Even my NH and JD dealers tell me that is what they recommend to do and they do the same thing with their own tractors; they never seem to have an issue either. I am I missing something here, I am I too old school or are people too paranoid about these hydraulic oil change intervals?

I tend to agree with you on this issue. The manufacturers put the requirement there and to avoid warranty issues we all do it. I changed my Kubota RTV900 hydraulic oil at 200 hours and 4 years, it was still looking like new. I know that we nor any of our neighbors ever changed hydraulic oil in our old iron tractors on the farm and they didn't even have filters back then. Never had a problem, just topped it up when we needed too. I don't recall anyone ever having hydraulic failure and some of the tractors I drove as a teen had really milky oil from water contamination. I guess the equipment today is of inferior quality and demands a much cleaner product, that and the OEM's are afraid that it will fall apart too soon so they take every precaution. I do see that Kubota has extended the change times on some of their equipment which could indicate that they have taken some precautions to get a cleaner product out the door in the first place. Perhaps the biggest reason for the 200 hour oil changes in these CUTs is lack of working so the oil sits and contaminates itself with water therefore needs replacement more than a daily driver type tractor. I don't think hydraulic oil wears out from use in a clean environment.

 

[eagle107]

Only time I ever had hydraulic oil contaminated was from getting stuck in high water areas. I have also seen it happen when equipment sits out in the rain/elements for a couple of years. As long as you keep you equipment dry and inside, the hydraulic oil contaminating from water should almost never happen, anyway I have not experienced it. It is too bad that the manufacturers create this fear about things like this. I just do not see the need for so many people to waste their hard earn money and good oil on an unnecessary procedure like this. Thanks for the responses.

 

[mikefamig]

Something to consider is that with most new mechanical equipment it is not a bad idea to do a first fluid change after a short running period to remove any foreign material that may be in there from the manufacturing process and also any metal from initial breakin.wear. After that first change you go to a normal schedule.

For example my electric generator with a Briggs engine recommends the first oil change at then hours.

Mike.

 

[eagle107]

Something to consider is that with most new mechanical equipment it is not a bad idea to do a first fluid change after a short running period to remove any foreign material that may be in there from the manufacturing process and also any metal from initial breakin.wear. After that first change you go to a normal schedule.

For example my electric generator with a Briggs engine recommends the first oil change at then hours.

Mike.

Yes, but you are referencing to an engine, not a hydraulic system. Engine oil goes through a much more intensive/explosive environment than hydraulic oil, so engine oil should be changed more frequently. Within the hydraulic oil environment, I think most of the fluid contaminates and foreign material would be caught by the hydraulic filters.

 

[arlen4720]

My 4720 calls for the first hydro oil change in 400 hrs. That seems about right to me. My x748 manual calls for hydro changes every 200 hours, again that sounds about right. The hydrostat drives works the fluid quite a bit harder than just hydraulics. With a hydro drive, it's basically the same fluid flowing between the pump and hydro motor, operating at up to 5000psi. Just a small percentage of it (charge flow), gets replaced by cooled oil.
That's a big difference between the "old iron" and new tractors. Also, the wet brakes, and wet PTO clutches put more strain on the oil. Some of the older tractors had gear oil in the gearcases also. Now hydro fluid it having to lubricate the planetaries, the PTO gears, and the front axle.
I do think many people go overboard though, alot of people are changing fluid MORE often than factory recommendations.
Many CUT owners put less than 50 hours per year on their machines....I think that's harder on the machines than anything.
My 4720 holds 9 gallons of "high dollar" fluid....I sure don't want to change it anymore often than needed.

We went through this same thing on industrial equipment like shears and presses. They held hundreds of gallons of oil each.
We started sending out samples for testing....it's the best way to determine hydro fluid changes.

 

[Dingeryote]

+1 on the testing.

Blackstone labs gets 25 bucks for oil analysis. Just tap off a couple ounces, fill out the card and send it to them.
Hydro breaks down with heat cycles, and loses anti corrosion and antifriction propertys , as well as pressure resistance.

The thing is, the manufacturer dosn't know how you will operate your tractor. They make thier reccomendations based upon thier testing, and not your use.
Some folks flog thier equipment in the heat and dust, others baby thiers in cool weather. They make a stab at a guess, that should cover thier butts on warranty, and add a disclaimer...always a disclaimer "Increased change intervals under adverse conditions reccomended" etc.

Nobody likes spending the $$$, but in the long run, a simple test sample will give you an idea if you can stretch the interval, or shorten it up.
Hydro is cheaper than splitting a tractor and replacing expensive components.

 

[paulharvey]

I often wondered about this, my background is far more construction then farming, but I have seen a fair number of brand new track hoes(85 to 330) and not once have I seen them change hydro after a week or even 3 months, and they run 6+ hours per day, 5-6 days per week. I know its apples to oranges, but ...

 

[trktrman]

Something to consider is that with most new mechanical equipment it is not a bad idea to do a first fluid change after a short running period to remove any foreign material that may be in there from the manufacturing process and also any metal from initial breakin.wear. After that first change you go to a normal schedule.

For example my electric generator with a Briggs engine recommends the first oil change at then hours.

Mike.

Agreed. This is the reason, plain and simple. A good reason at that! Better to spend a few dollars(or $100) on fluids/filters than to cause serious damage to mechanical components.