Power steering loosing power

[bigpete]

DAP,

It might be worth a shot to contact JD Financing to let them know there is an outstanding complaint case (?) and submit a request for temporary relief from payments and interest accrual until the issue is resolved. That is, if JD actually has an open case on this tractor. I'm still a litle fuzzy on that one. Last I knew, JClark was told that the non-stock tires and ballast were the problem. He subsequently took the tractor back. If that's where we are at, all we have here is a guy with a steering problem trying to figure it out on his own--outside of the warranty process, and without any further request for action on JD's part.

JCLark, sorry if it sounded like I was talkiing about you as if you are not here. But is that where we are? JD's statement that the non-stock tires and wheels are too big and that you need more ballast? What about your case tracking wih he CCC? Can they tell you what is being done? If they have closed the case, then you do need to send a formal complaint or have someone, e.g an attorney, do it for you.

I'm trying not to sound harsh here, and am just curious about the formal status of the complaint. I'm still pulling for some resolution but that won't happen if it's still back at the last diagnosis of the RM. If that's the case, there's no chance of geting relief from payments or interest accrual.

 

[JerryG]

No one especially JClark will like what I have to say, but I am sure that JD thinks the same thing but will not say so. By changing the tires to where you have created a lag condition you have not only increased the wear and stress on your transfer gears but also everything in the drive line. This wear and stress is also being put on the steering. You may not be using the 4 wheel drive except when you need it, but that is usually when the drive train and pump is put under the most stress and wear anyway. I would be willing to bet that the relief has gone out and maybe you pump because of the mismatch. I really don't think that JD will pay for any repairs because they know that the tires and wheels were out of spec. and against recommended application requirements.

 

[DennoAce]

- Now I feel I wasted my time in suggesting my air-bleed procedure, since the thread since then mostly revolved around the dealer/JD reps. I am all for ripping these BS-meisters a new one also but myself would be more interested in having a tractor that worked right first. Maybe JClark you are just too disgusted at this point to mess with it which I do fully understand, but I was hoping I could possibly help....

- Nailerguy, of course the tractor will steer easier when moving, but I say again that a PS system that cannot turn the wheel on hard ground with a reasonably loaded bucket without moving is a piss-poor system indeed and when I test-drive a 4110 (this wknd I hope) I will test this and WILL NOT spend $13k on a machine that is this poorly designed.
Sorry to disagree but viscosity will NOT make a difference in this case to the extreme he is indicating and again, if it does at this stage of this machine's life(the tolerances in the components should still be nice and tight)...there is a larger problem here. Also, the very nature of trapped air in a hyd. system is that it is possible for it to become "trapped" and not "clear itself" out all the time. I have replaced countless hyd. components on numerous machines (most of which were ten times the size of these little tractors) and I can honestly say I have rarely had a trapped air problem...but it does occur.

Anyway gotta go for now! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[bigpete]

Hi, DennoAce.

Give one a test drive and I think you will find that the 4110 is very well designed. First, I have never heard any other 4110/4115 owners have a steereing problem like this. That doesn't mean there have not been others, but there are plenty of 4110 owners hangin' around here, including me. I was steering mine with a single finger and a 53" bucket full of wet snow this morning--yes, sitting still.

Second, JClark put bigger wheels on because he fealt that he needed more ground clearance with the deck on. Me...I take my deck off any time I am using the loader, heading into the brush, moving snow. Heck, my deck is only left on when I'm going to be mowing as my next chore. I think this part of the complaint is purely subjective, but still real for JClark. The 1-2" of clearance gain from adding the bigger tires doesn't make this, or any CUT, truly usable for heavy work with the deck on. Without actually measureing the deck clearance when fully lifted, I'd say it's not a lot different than other CUTS this size.

I will say that the rear linkage assembly on the 4110/4115 for the deck lift hangs lower than I would like to see. Again, easily removed wiha a couple of pins, but still a bit of a design shortcoming that exists in CUTS this size.

I also agree, that I can't see anything here being related to a viscosity issue. All the oils in question are spec oils. More likely this is a blockage or pump/valve failure that has yet to be tested, and it sounds like they will not be tested. I do doubt the oversized tires would have this affect on steering, but until somebody actually puts stock tires back on it to find out, we'll never know, and JD will never listen.

The 4115 is virtually identicall to the 4110 with bigger tires and engine. The hydraulics ARE identical, so JClark has really added 4115 rear tires to a steering system identical to the 4115. The only difference between JClark's renegade /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif settup and the 4115 is the size of the front tires and perhaps a couple inches in wheelbase. Hmmmmm /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[JerryG]

<font color="blue"> but until somebody actually puts stock tires back on it to find out, we'll never know, and JD will never listen.
</font>
They won't listen now, they have already saw what caused the problem and it didn't have anything to do with the way the tractor was set up, designed or under their control.

 

[bigpete]

I will need to look back in the thread for the exact quote, but I believe he JD RM said the larger tires were the cause of the tractor's inability to steer from a standstill under load, not that they caused another problem within the hydraulic system. If I recall, the RM was saying that JClark needed to put stock tires back on and add ballast for the steering to work properly.

There is also some history in this thread that indicates that this tractor has barely seen 4WD which does not correspond to the "lag" theory and strain on the drivetrain. Lag, as I understand it, applies to a condition from mismatched tire sizes operating in 4WD. Larger rear wheels might strain the hydraulic pumps a little more, but remember this is the same hydraulic system as the 4115 with the same sized larger rear tires.

If someone puts stock rear tires on the machine and the problem continues, JD will have to assume its a hydraulic system problem, which they have not yet done. They won't even consider this until the machine is back to stock (...right, JClark?) In fact, they are refusing to explore the hydraulics, the way I read this thing. They might come around to blaming a hydraulic system problem on the non-stock tires later on, but to this point I don't think they have said the pump is bad or that the pressure is low. I think your position assumes that JD has stated that JClark has voided his warranty. If they have, JClark didn't tell us that.

 

[DennoAce]

ps Hyp3....thanks a lot for the feedback..I definately love reading about this machine +- before I go plunk down $13k (well...let JD finance $13k for me interest free! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif


/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[JerryG]

It's not that the rear tires are larger, it is that the ratio front to rear is off. That is what caused the stress and more than likely the constant bypassing of the relief valve and the stressing and or over working to the pump while in 4 wheel drive. Putting the stock tires back on and trying it that way still doesn't prove anything that they don't already know or should know. If the mis-match has caused hydraulic system damage, it will still be damaged even with the correct tires back on. You are right, they haven't to our knowledge checked the hydraulic system. But I would be willing to bet that the JD rep. and the dealer has already talked about it and the dealer is trying not to loose his customer or make him mad. At this point, as a dealer it would be hard to know what to tell the customer. You may want to tell him what you know, but on the other hand you want to keep peace with him and also with John Deere.

 

[bigpete]

Jerry,

<font color="blue"> If the mis-match has caused hydraulic system damage, it will still be damaged even with the correct tires back on. </font>

That's exactly correct. It's always back to the requirement of putting stock tires back on, whether it shows that the hydraulics are damaged, or whether it shows that the slight increase in rear height creates a dynamic angle condition from back to front that degrades the effective force of the steering cylinders.

I'm just operating on what has been reported and can't go out so far on the conjecture limb as to say that there has been steering pump or hydraulic system damage becuse of lag from mismatched wheels. JClark stated that he doesn't use this machine in 4WD. Our definition of lag is the same. If the machine is not used in 4WD, lag is a non-issue. As is rear wheel size a non-issue unless the fronts remain small and this creates enough of a "plow" effect to degrade steering.

Remember those gear-heads in high school who jacked up their short-wheel base cars and put little tires on the front? If so, I'm sure you also you remember they didn't steer or corner worth beans, and they went through front tires like grass through a goose.

Wonder what would happen if JClark put bigger (4115) tires on the front? Hmmmm /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[JerryG]

I have been trying to state it as the JD rep. would see it. Unauthorized equipment caused the damage. I am sure that if they try to justify not repairing it, that is what they will say. Bigger tires on the front would be alright as long as the original ratio is maintained. The ratio between the front and rear tire sizes must be maintained to prevent damage, tire wear and to eliminate the possibility of any future warranty claim being bounced.