Traction 3000 20 Series with R4s Traction Issue

   / 3000 20 Series with R4s Traction Issue #1  

454shooter

Silver Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
146
Location
Pennsylvania
Tractor
Mahindra 3550 HST Cab, 850D Gator
I have a 3720 hydro with fluid filled large R4s (The Marathoner). I have a JD 6' power angle FEL mounted blade and a Lucknow 6 1/2 ' blower on the rear (I think this is the ultimate tractor snow removal set up). On some medium grades I have less traction than I thought I would considering I have over 1500 lbs. of rear ballast. I thought maybe adding some front counter weight would improve traction but in searching posts here it does not sound like a promising remedy. I have also searched all the tire chain posts and believe that I am going to order a set of v bar ladder chains from tirechains.com for the rear and add some chain to them to make them like tirechain's duo-grip. I am seriously considering ordering a pair of chains for the front as there is no additional shipping but I have read mixed opinions about putting chains on the front here. Anyone with a 3000 20 series facing my same issues come up with a solution or have a better suggestion on chains?

Thanks in advance for any input.............Shooter
 
   / 3000 20 Series with R4s Traction Issue #2  
My dealer warned that JD would void my warrenty if I put chains on the front tires.Have you thought about filling the tires?
Jim
 
   / 3000 20 Series with R4s Traction Issue
  • Thread Starter
#4  
The tires are filled and the blower weighs around 850lb. I believe.
 
   / 3000 20 Series with R4s Traction Issue #5  
Can't imagine why a dealer would say that. More traction on the front wouldn't be a warranty issue. An outside chance that chains would not have the clearance when the front wheels are pegged and the front axle is also pegged to the stops. Then the chains would just rip off what they could get at. Again, not a warranty issue, unless they are just looking for anything to hide behind. I wouldn't buy it, nor in my experience, have the Deere people tried to find things like this to hide behind. They don't need to. It is not abuse, but it is in the manual not to do it. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I don't think chains on the front wheels really could accomplish enough to warrant using them. Chains on the rears and using the steering brakes when steering is a problem should accomplish anything chains are going to benefit. Just an opinion.

R4's don't have the traction (again, IMO and experience) that R-1 (ag bar tires) have on ice and snow. Yet they too will slip on ice and snow. All tires will slip on ice and snow, as its just one of those things that ice will do to us. Overall, I like the R4's as they don't mud up and track mud as far as R1's, and are more forgiving on the lawn. But in the woods, and in snow, they don't get the bite that R1's get. So when that happens, I put chains on the rears which helps, but even with them, I find places on the frozen ground that I can get stuck. Again, it's the nature of the frozen beast. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
   / 3000 20 Series with R4s Traction Issue #6  
Do you have a picture of that snow machine?
 
   / 3000 20 Series with R4s Traction Issue #7  
The issue with front chains may be the same as I had on the 4300. The steering arm is too close to the sidewall to pass any chain that is big enough to help.

4300 with 12/12 and GB FEL (going bye-bye for new tractor fist of year)
 
   / 3000 20 Series with R4s Traction Issue #8  
I wonder if they are thinking that chains on the front would screw up the ratio of 4WD..... Because with the chains the tires would now have a different diameter than what was originally installed.... Because with Smaller front tires and larger Rear Tires, you have to have the Two Tire Sizes match the ratio, so it doesn't screw up your tranny.. But, I find it hard to believe it could do much damage my self.... but I'm the type of guy that would get some short sheet metal screws and put them in...
 
   / 3000 20 Series with R4s Traction Issue #9  
Someone on another post asked about studs for tires. I posted the following link for screw in studs. We use them in our snowmobile tracks. I'm not sure they will stay in under the extreme load, but there is a Kubota in the ad that is using them.

http://www.bergstromskegs.com/tg/tg_other_uses.htm
 
   / 3000 20 Series with R4s Traction Issue #10  
Shooter,

I have limited personal experience with your topic, but have gathered some info I hope helps. My first thought is R4 tires are not that good in snow. We discuss this often on the forum and I for one have never been convinced that R4 tires do that well in snow. My older 4310 would really move snow with the front blade, as long as it was pretty flat. Add a hill, or some icy snow underneath and it was skating, even in 4wd. The problem I see is that these machines are heavy, and will push alot of snow once moving. The R4 tires tread pattern seemingly does not "grip" that well as the bars are wide,flat and smooth. The tires are also hard, especially when loaded, and do not have enough sidewall give to increase contact patch when starting and stopping. Changing direction, or handling a heavy blade and blower will tax not only forward and reverse traction, but lateral as well. I have some areas here that my 595 garden tractor would manuver well on that I would not even attempt in snow to try with my 4310, 3720 or current 4520. I looked at some rear chains for my 3720, and I am no expert, but I really was concerned about chain rub in the fenders. I would be more concerned about the 43" Marathoners, unless you were to invert your wheels. Front chains are a "no-no" from JD. My neighbor damaged his front differential trying them , and although it was warrantied, it took some calling and begging on his part to do so. My opinion, for what it is worth, is to "do it right." You have a 3720 with a blade and a rear blower. There is no "tire" that will offer the traction of a set of chains. I would ask your dealer whether you could buy an extra set of rear wheels (sometimes they will have a set even at the dealer--from where someone changed out tires); buy them and do not load them (with the blower weight will not help that much) and mount chains. When winter comes, mount them inverted with the chains on. That way, you can switch back and forth easily and do it almost as fast, if not as fast, as you could struggle with a set of chains on tires that are barely able to fit within the fender wells. Yes it may cost a bit more, but you will have the advantage of chains without the potential damage. And over the life of the tractor, it will be a good cost to benefit ratio. My neighbor (same one), who until two months ago had a 4410, did this. In winter he swapped his usual wheels for a set with chains. He bought them off ebay and could swap wheels out in less than 20 minutes with a jack. His cost was about $400.00 total and he got much good use from them. Ultimately, when he wore the tread out on his original tires he just swapped his newer winter wheel-tire combo and removed the chains for year round use.

John M
 
 
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