Hydraulics for 430 FEL snowplow conversion

[mlip]

I'm looking for some guidance on a project I'm about to take on. I recently bought a 6' Meyers blade with single acting pistons, which, I believe is typical for snow plow hydraulics. I'm preparing to fabricate a mount to adapt it to my 430 FEL, that part seems fairly straight forward, but I haven’t really decided on how to tap into the tractors hydraulics to angle the plow blade.

I've looked at some other projects, in particular one by Kennyd, on how to adapt hydraulics to the plow setup. Some very nice work has been done, but I was thinking of something simpler and cheaper. I don’t mind disconnecting and reconnecting a couple of hydro lines when I install the blade, and putting them back when the bucket goes back on. I thought I could install quick disconnects to one of the bucket curl piston hoses on each side, install an orifice fitting to restrict flow to a level suitable to the Meyers pistons and be done with it. However, I'm not sure about providing fluid to a single acting piston on the plow with a line that was intended for a double acting piston on the FEL. Would the setup I'm considering be able to handle fluid returned to the system when pressurizing the opposing plow piston? Or do I need to add some sort of a return line for each plow piston? If I need to supply a return line would I need something like this (Surplus Center Item Detail)

I'm doing this on a JD4300 if that makes a difference. Has anyone tried this approach? Any info appreciated.


Mark

 

[kennyd]

Mark,
There is no problem with connecting two SA cylinder's to your DSCV, when one cylinder expands, its pushes the other cylinder closed.
I think disconnecting the curl hoses will get real old fast, also, if your cylinders leak you will have no way to level the plow.
The other less expensive option is to add the 3rd SCV to your tractor, the kit is about $200 from JD and you can install it yourself. Its just the handle and the tubing up to two QD's mounted on a bracket on the rear of the tractor. The actual "valve" is already installed because it's part of the DSCV valve body. You could then run hoses from the rear remote up to the loader to operate the plow.

 

[mlip]

Kenny,

I'm still learning about the hydraulics on this machine....

I have a power beyond kit installed on this tractor. Going to use it for a log splitter off the 3PH. Could this be the source for the hydraulics for the plow? If so would I control the angle of the blade off the same control I use for the FEL??

Thanks.

 

[kennyd]

Since you have the PB installed, you could get the valve kit from WR Long, and tap into the PB lines. You could also plumb in your own remote with a new valve block, but that would look bad, and considering you already have a 3rd valve (mentioned in previous post) that would be silly and it would cost more than the JD kit.

The WR Long option will also cost about $500, the same as adding the diverter to the FEL like I did.
Valve Kits

Hydraulics are expensive, no way around that. Seems that your 2 options are the JD rear remote kit About $200.00. Or a diverter on the FEL, witch will cost about $500.00

We can help through the hydraulics, it's intimidating at first but it's really very simple....

 

[Bedlam]

I would definetly be interested in this setup. I tried the same thing.
I curled the bucket up, and then bought two connectors to snap onto the two bucket curl cylinders and connect to the plow pistons.
It didnt work.
I was told by the dealer before hand that it wouldnt, but figured they just didnt want to se me do the setup for 25 dollars. But he was right.
I am still baffled why it didnt work though.
It makes sence , basically the two singles together were doing the same thing as the double acting curl were.
I tried everything, disconnect, drain etc. and finally gave up.
I sure would like to know why it didnt work .
I ended up putting a valve in my hydraulic loop, and then ran two 1/4 inch hoses to the front with disconnects.
Good luck either way, and keep us informed.
Allan

 

[kennyd]

Allen,
What exactly didn't work? Hooking up 2 SA cylinder's?

 

[Bedlam]

Well, I had a fisher plow, with two single acting pistons.(One hose to each cylinder)
I located the two connectors that hooked to the curl cylinders.(which are bouble acting) And I connected each of the hoses from the plow to each of them with a quick disconnect I bought.
Now My thinking is this, when the fluid is pushed into one hose, it returns via the other, just as with the double acting cylinders.
The dealer mech. said it wouldnt work, but only offered that it creates some sort of hydraulic binding.
I did everything I could think of. I thought maybe plugged connectors etc. so I disconnected one hose after the connectors, and set it into a bucket and opened the valve slightly and got a good strong stream of oil through it, I then repeated on the other one and it also was free flowing.
Hooked them back up and the same problem.
I had one piston that had a "knick' in the housing and was difficult to move back and forth, but there should have been plenty of pressure to move it.
I went and bought a brand new one and replaced it anyway.
It still wouldn't turn the plow.
This is on a ford 1720 (1995) So Im not sure if it could be just with my model or not.
The only conclusion I can come up with is that the valve isnt seeing the "full' return flow and locks the return somehow. It was very frustrating, and more.
That was several years ago.But It still bugs me that I dont know why it does it.
I dont regret adding the valve , and hoses though. I was lucky to have 3/8 hoses set in a hydraulic loop set from the dealer, which allowed me to mount a valve on the rear axle and run 1/4 inch hose to the front for the plow.I made an extension on the valve to come through the "floor" housing by the 3 pt hitch lever, so I could activate the valve.
Surplus center had the valve, about 80 dollars and the hoses werent much
either.I did however buy the connectors at a local auto parts store, as I wanted to match and reuse the ones that the plow came with.
Just as a note of how my system worked, I use the "frame" with pins that came off the truck. Bolted it inside the 5 foot bucket. It really made for a long unit. And plenty front heavy. I used a 1200 lb counterweight. (I dont have a QA)
Anyway I used it this way for a couple of years, and then welded the bracket to the tractor frame, and just use the bucket to raise it and lower it. This made it shorter, and more weight "right" .
Basically a 7 foot plow inside a bucket is alot of weight advantage on the front.
Im hoping osmeone with more exterience in hydraulics will read and let us know just why it didnt work for me.
It just doesnt make sence ..wish this was more help to you.
Allan

 

[Steuny]

I'm looking to upgrade my JD 750 to a 4300 which has a 430 loader on it. Main reason for wanting a 430 loader is so I could switch attachments easily to the 7' front blade for snow plowing. Is your reason for wanting to do this conversion because of cost savings or is the front mounted blade on the JD430 lacking control. Can the blade be angled . Sorry not to be answering any of your concerns but post was concerning me and my tractor purchase.

 

[kennyd]

Allen,
Thanks for the explanation. Your Ford tractor must have a valve that pressurizes both ports all the time, this is called a "regenerative" circuit. You can do a search for the term "regen" for a more thorough discussion. It is also called "fast dump" on some models including JD.
However, JD uses a valve that does not do this unless the joystick is pushed all the way to the right (fast dump in the manual). there is a lockout to keep the joystick from going into the regen position to alleviate this stalling cylinder problem when using a plow or the chute rotation cylinder on a snowblower. The problems you had will NOT be experienced by MLIP.
Again, this must be the way older Fords where equipped, because the new NH tractors can run a plow without problems-In fact if you look at poster PineRidge's plow setup, this is exactly how his is hooked up-two SA cylinders run of the curl circuit through a diverter, also exactly the way mine is setup.

Hopefully this answers why it did not work on your Ford 1720.

 

[Bedlam]

YES Thanks for explaining it, after I posted, I went out and while driving, I gave it some serious thought.And I thought of something close to what you explained. It makes sence.
Im all set, Im glad it will work others thats what I was really looking to know
If it had worked for me, the only downfall would be that in time given the weight the bucket would uncurl, and I would have to disconnect and reconnect the curl hoses and re adjust the bucket.
I never got that far, to tell if it was a factor to be concerned about, expecially if when the plow was set down there wasnt much pressure on the bucket to pull the cylinders down.
Milip, looks like you can breath a sigh of relief now. I didnt mean to get people worried.
For the money id try it through the curl, all it would mean is that you'd have to deal with any long term leakdown of the curl cylinders, and possible reattaching the hoses to curl it back.
I was thinking maybe if there was some type of 'Y' valve, where you could have both connected and switch the "y' . (brain cramp)
Allan..