CK35 HST price check and pump question

[MichiganIron]

Manufacturers list many specifications differently. I would rather stay away from commenting on whether it's BS, but it does make the buying comparisons a bit confusing.

The KIOTI's are definitley on par, and a search of the competitors specs will show what the comparisons are. Overall, and looking at total pump capacity, the KIOTI's still have higher hydraulic flow capacity than most of the competition. I addition, the hydraulic reservoiir capacity of the KIOTI tractors far exceeds about all of the competitors. This gives a cooler running hydraulic system and the ability to do more with the auxiliary hydraulics.

Sorry if the KIOTI spec was confusing in any way.

[Gittyup]

Originally Posted by BJN644

Yes that helps very much, thanks.

So when someone tells me that Kioti has the highest pump flow rate in it's class (because they only list total flow of the two chambers combined) I am getting fed a line of BS. Not saying that there is anthing wrong with the published specs, just tell me the truth that Kioti is on par with other manufactures pump rates.

Hardly BS. If one takes the time to study the specs for the various manufacturers carefully, it becomes quite clear how each specifies hydraulic flow capacities. I didn't find Kioti's method to be at all misleading. One can easily separate out the power steering requirements to get an apples-to-apples comparison of what is left for attachments.

Few (if any) other manufacturers' similar sized products come close to the CKs in hydraulic flow ratings. This was an important metric for me and played an big role in swaying me to buy Kioti.

Examples (total capacity):

Kioti CK25 (25 hp) - 12.8 gpm
JD 2520 (26 hp) - 10.5 gpm
Kubota B2630 (26 hp) - 9.8 gpm
Kubota B2620 (26 hp) - 8.3 gpm
Kubota B7800 (30 hp) - 9.5 gpm
NH T1030 (26 hp) - 5.6 gpm
NH TC30 (30 hp) - 6.2 gpm

The Kioti has at least 20% more flow capacity than any of these.

[BJN644]

I'm not knocking Kioti, matter of fact it's the brand I have decided to buy. BS may have been a poor choice of words on my part, what I had was a salesman comparing Kioti's total flow rate(because that's all that is listed in the brochure) against a competitors impliment flow rate, not really a fair comparison. And it wasn't any salesmen on this forum.

Sorry if I ruffled and feathers.

[Gittyup]

No ruffled feathers here. While a salesman may have been trying to mislead you, I don't think Kioti is doing so (which is what it sounded like you were saying).

Most manufacturers list total pump flow. Some go further to break it down. I think Kioti does also, somewhere, maybe in the owners manual. Not really sure, just know I've seen them broken down.

Mainly, I just wanted to make sure you knew that Kioti really does have better hydraulic flow than just about everybody. If running a backhoe, splitter, or other implement that uses a lot of hydraulic fluid movement, then hydraulic flow is a very important consideration, and is one area where Kioti really shines.

FYI, I also looked at Mahindra, and Branson - both around 8 gpm. MF was around 10 gpm. (all total capacities here).

I can't understand how NH gets away with those puny pumps they use.... Maybe 5 or 6 gpm is all one really needs??? Me, I want as much as I can get for faster movements and cycle times.

Get the Kioti. You won't be disappointed.

[IXLR8]

Hmm I am not sure how much is really needed, I run my CK30 at about 1400 rpm for everything, certainly not getting the full 12+gpm at that speed. Still, it is plenty fast enough for me and doesn't use a whole lot of fuel. Then again I only have 50 hrs with the machine.. still learning it. Maybe with more time and experiance I will want things faster, but for now, it is plenty fast enough for me.

[Gittyup]

It is my understanding that you cannot take advantage of the full 12.88 gpm for implements. Only 8.24 gpm is available for that. I believe it is done this way so that power steering isn't affected by implement and visa versa - Nothing worse than poor power steer with a heavy bucket full. Someone please correct me if I am wrong about this.

I operate my backhoe at about 1600 rpm's. Even so, I bet I get faster motion than those NH's at the same rpm's. Or maybe I just have a little Tim Taylor in me .

[MichiganIron]

That's correct, 8.24 gpm for auxiliary hydraulic flow. The other chamber provides the 4.64 gpm for the power steering, for just the reasons you stated. Back when power steering was first introduced onthe CUTs, the power steering flow was controlled by a priority valve, that robbed the auxiliary hydraulics to provide the necessary flow for the steering system. This was fine, except for a couple drawbacks. The priority valve needed the priority pressure to divert the flow, and your loader work would be effected when demanding hydraulic flow to run the loader.

As FEL's became the norm on CUTs, most manufacturers went to dual chamber pumps to give the operator a better feel for the FEL while moving and turning with a load.

Many manufacturers limit the pump capacity due to the small hydraulic reservoirs there products have. You need to carry about as much fluid as the GPM of the auxiliary flow to keep the fluid at a reasonable operating temperature.

[Gittyup]

Thanks Iron, for the clarification. Has any one ever done a comparison of cycle times between manufacturers for the same implement at the same rpm's? Say the same Woods backhoe mounted on a CK and on a NH? It would be an interesting test. Or even a big wood splitter?

[MichiganIron]

Don't know whether it's been done for all cylce times, although many FEL manufacturers publish them. There are so many variables that effect cycle time beyond pump capacity; line size, valves, quick connect sizing, cylinder bore, etc.

Would be a good project for someone to take on. Are you up for the challenge LOL?