JUst about ready to pull the trigger on a CK30....except

[Tim M]

On the same thought of shopping around for a good price on a DK40/KL401 do the same for the CK30 with woods LC102 loader. I did and when I bought a few years ago the price difference between the Woods LC102 and the KL130 was about $100. PLUS the warranty on the Woods is 2 years and if I recall correctly the KL130 is only a year. I have been more than happy with my Woods loader. I can move some monstrous loads a few feet off the ground.

[IslandTractor]

Originally Posted by MichiganIron

Manufacturers rate their equipment slightly differently. The KIOTI KL130 break-out force is listed as 2046 lbs. The KIOTI Break-out Force refers to the maximum calculated bucket rotation force at the pivot pins. The loader will seriously outlift the 1150 lbs it is rated to at full height, but won't lift 2046 lbs. with the boom cylinders alone. It would require a combination of the boom and bucket cylinders acting together to develop that force at the pivot pins, or break-out.

So by this defintion it would be the max force generated lifting at the pivot points when using max lift and curl functions simultaneously (with engine at max rpms I presume). I am still confused however on a couple of points. First is that there is an ISO definition that seems to apply only to excavators that uses max curl at 4 inches back from bucket edge. That obviously could different than what might be used for loaders. The bigger question to me is whether breakout force is calculated by the manufacturers or measured? Anyone know?

[Loren49]

I did a comparison of the Woods LC102 and Kioti LK130

Main differences are:

1) Spec test psi
Woods 2500psi Kioti 2000psi (accounts for 25% of increase assuming CK series puts out 2500) Also I don't know whether pressure relief could be adjusted on KL130

2) Boom & Bucket cylinder dameter
Woods 1.97" Kioti 1.75"
(surface area 12.2 sq in) (surface area 9.6 sq in)

This increases lift by about 25% but also slows cycle time by the same percent

Lift time for Kioti is 3.9 sec - assume Woods is about 5 sec

I could not find unit weight on Woods - the KL130 is about 770lbs with bucket so can't tell which is more rugged. (did find a Woods loader with 1340lb lift that weighed 675lb)

Also lift hieght was misleading: max height was to top of bucket -actual clearance under bucket with bucket level was similar:
Woods 85" Kioti 85.7"

I have found that even with 600lbs on 3 pt that the rear end of the tractor gets pretty light with full capacity of the KL130. I'm not questioning with extra lift of the Woods loader but am not convinced that it is a better match for the CK series. Bigger isn't always better in my opinion. I believe that the KL130 puts as much strain on my tractor as it is designed for.

Loren

[IslandTractor]

Originally Posted by Loren49

I did a comparison of the Woods LC102 and Kioti LK130

Main differences are:
....
Loren

That is really helpful. It would be great to maintain a database to compare loaders with these sorts of real specs rather than just be limited by the marketing BS provided by so many manufacturers.

[Tim M]

LC102 with bucket weighs 1100 lbs.

BH80 backhoe with 16" bucket and subframe weighs 1240 lbs.

I have seen 2800 psi on a ck30. (gauge was on a tee in the line to the lift cylinder, relief valve was activated)

[Yota_85]

Thanks Loren, that certainly is useful info.
Yes, it makes sense that if the Woods has a larger lift capacity, that it would be slower.

It is, after all, on the same tractor with the same hydro pump.

I was aware of the slightly larger diameter on the lift cylinders of the Woods, but was not aware HOW and HOW MUCH that'd effect real word capacities. Thanks for your insight on this. VERY HELPFUL!

And to Tim. I WISH it was a $100 difference between the Woods LC102 & the KC130 here in my area. It'd make this purchase SO much easier.
The 2yr warranty alone would make it worth the $100.

It's more like $800-$1000 more, both equipped with QA loader (which comes standard on newer KL130 loaders) and 60" HD buckets.

[dfkrug]

Originally Posted by IslandTractor

Does anyone have a reference for a technical definition of what breakout force is?

A few yrs ago someone posted a link to a site with the ISO standards for
breakout force diagrammed and explained. I can not find it now. As I have
always said, it is very hard to do a fair apples-to-apples comparison of
FELs (or hoe attachments) using published specs. For hoes, I have collected
lots of field measurements to do a better comparison.

For FELs, let me add a few comments:

As your FEL boom rises, the force moment arm get shorter, so net lifting
forces are less. If one FEL uses a longer cylinder, it can lift higher than
another FEL, but the force at max lift is less. Note that the KL120 and
the 7TL FELs both do not lift as high as the KL130.

As stated, one of Kioti's brochures specs the KL130 at 2000psi, instead of
the 2500psi that I measure at the FEL (stock).

Finally, Breakout Force. Some brochures describe this as a force about a
pivot. That makes little sense as that would be a torque, which is not
a useful spec here. For a backhoe, the breakout force is the max linear
force at the bkt teeth, so the bkt size (length, not width) affects that.
For a FEL, the BF also is the max force seen at the bucket edge due to
curl action. This force is essentially upward, but could be max at a slightly
non-vertical angle. Perhaps WESTENDORF, as a manufacturer can tell
us his company's definition of BF.

One more thing: the curl action of a FEL is much stronger than the boom
action as we know. Using pallet forks, you can lift a load with curl only
action, which puts pressure on your boom cyls greater than your tractor
can deliver. I have done this numerous times when I have more than
maxed out the boom lift capacity.

[Yota_85]

If (on the CKs) that the Woods loader operates at a relief valve setting of 2500 psi, then can the KL130 loader for set up in the same manner? (I mean by turning up the point at that the relief valve releases pressure)

If the Woods loader has a warranty twice as long as the Kioti loader, than I would think (that at least Woods) is confident it'd operate at 2500 psi.

Or am I talking crackers again. It's ok. You can tell me if I am.....

[MichiganIron]

Stock pressure relief setting on the CK25/35 loader joystick is 2560psi.

[dfkrug]

Originally Posted by MichiganIron

Stock pressure relief setting on the CK25/35 loader joystick is 2560psi.

Do you ever measure it, MICHIGAN? I know you are a dealer, and it would
be more than a little interesting if DaeDong lowered the factory RV settings
on any of it tractors or FELs. As I said, mine tested at amost exactly
2500 psi, and that was years ago. I suspect that it was just another
poorly proof-read brochure.

What a tractor or FEL or backhoe maker says about their RV settings says
a lot about what forces their equipment is built for. For example, sub-CUTs
and "budget" tractors usually have system RVs set at 2000 or less.
Generally this includes B-series Kubotas, BX's, JD790, Kubota L3400, etc.
"Deluxe" CUTs, like the L3240 or JD3320 or the CK27/30/35 use about 2500psi.
You have to wonder about a FEL or hoe that can only handle 2000psi
when 2500psi units are also available. Of course, net forces are more
important than just the RV setting. I have had JD loaders with tiny cylinders
and 2500 RV settings that lifted as much as older and bigger Kubotas that
used only 2000psi cyls, but larger IDs.

BTW, I have no complaints about the forces delivered by my KL130.