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  1. #21
    Platinum Member rmorey's Avatar
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    Nov 2012
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    808
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    Eastern Ontario
    Tractor
    Kioti DK40SE HST Cab, Mechron 2200

    Default Re: Maybe gonna trade my DK40se(shuttle shift) for hydro DK40HST???

    Quote Originally Posted by GManBart View Post
    My dealer said they won't stock the DK40 or 45 with a cab.....only the 50, because of the power loss to AC, etc. They will order them, but they don't recommend it.
    Well I started out with a 25 and ended up with a 40 cab, so losing 1 1/2 hp to AC and gaining 15 was ok for me.
    Rick

  2. #22
    Veteran Member kiotiken's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
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    2,391
    Location
    Dunrobin, Ont
    Tractor
    2012 Kioti DK45 HST Cab

    Default Re: Maybe gonna trade my DK40se(shuttle shift) for hydro DK40HST???

    Quote Originally Posted by GManBart View Post
    My dealer said they won't stock the DK40 or 45 with a cab.....only the 50, because of the power loss to AC, etc. They will order them, but they don't recommend it.
    That doesn't make much sense to me, they even made the DK35 with A/C. The DK45 is very close to the DK50 in PTO hp only 1.5 diff. if memory serves. You can tell when you click on the A/C, but I've never had any issue with it and I have HST to boot.

    Quote Originally Posted by rmorey View Post
    Well I started out with a 25 and ended up with a 40 cab, so losing 1 1/2 hp to AC and gaining 15 was ok for me.
    A/C steals 5 to 7 hp, so it does make a big difference. If you needed all the PTO power you had, A/C would be a killer. Most of us don't use our tractors like that and if we do, we probably should have bought a bigger one.

    As for the OP's question, I've never had a shuttle shift, and I love my HST. I've had two tractors with the two pedal set up and one with the rocker pedal set up. Many disagree, but I much prefer the two pedal set up. The only thing I dislike about HST is I have to have the engine at a higher RPM constantly.

  3. #23
    Elite Member GManBart's Avatar
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    Dec 2012
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    3,389
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    Belleville, MI
    Tractor
    Massey Ferguson 241, Massey Ferguson 2244 crawler, Case 580 Super M Series 2

    Default Re: Maybe gonna trade my DK40se(shuttle shift) for hydro DK40HST???

    Quote Originally Posted by kiotiken View Post
    That doesn't make much sense to me, they even made the DK35 with A/C. The DK45 is very close to the DK50 in PTO hp only 1.5 diff. if memory serves. You can tell when you click on the A/C, but I've never had any issue with it and I have HST to boot.



    A/C steals 5 to 7 hp, so it does make a big difference. If you needed all the PTO power you had, A/C would be a killer. Most of us don't use our tractors like that and if we do, we probably should have bought a bigger one.

    As for the OP's question, I've never had a shuttle shift, and I love my HST. I've had two tractors with the two pedal set up and one with the rocker pedal set up. Many disagree, but I much prefer the two pedal set up. The only thing I dislike about HST is I have to have the engine at a higher RPM constantly.
    I think if you're a dealer, it makes sense, or might. They probably assume that people are going to need all the available PTO horsepower. If someone orders one with the smaller engine, it gives them a chance to discuss the trade offs, and how it's going to be used....then nobody complains. You know how people get....they want something, a shiny new one is on the lot, and they think "it'll be fine" without really listening to what the dealer is saying. They get it home, and complain when it won't run a particular implement with the A/C on, and nobody winds up happy.

  4. #24
    Veteran Member kiotiken's Avatar
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    Dunrobin, Ont
    Tractor
    2012 Kioti DK45 HST Cab

    Default Re: Maybe gonna trade my DK40se(shuttle shift) for hydro DK40HST???

    Quote Originally Posted by GManBart View Post
    I think if you're a dealer, it makes sense, or might. They probably assume that people are going to need all the available PTO horsepower. If someone orders one with the smaller engine, it gives them a chance to discuss the trade offs, and how it's going to be used....then nobody complains. You know how people get....they want something, a shiny new one is on the lot, and they think "it'll be fine" without really listening to what the dealer is saying. They get it home, and complain when it won't run a particular implement with the A/C on, and nobody winds up happy.
    There's always an implement or task that needs more hp, and a DK50 is still a relatively small tractor. My dealer never brought in any CK27's, they said the price diff. to the CK30 was to small (only about $800 at the time). There's a big price difference between the DK40 and DK50 (many $K) and many people see the DK40 as a sweet spot between tractor and price. There's also not much difference between the DK45 and DK50 in PTO hp. If you look at Kioti specs, there's 1.5hp between the open station HST models and the DK45 actually has .5 hp MORE on the cabbed model (you have to love Kioti's website). There's more profit in the DK50 and I think that's a big motivator when your dealer decided to only stock the DK50.

    http://www.kioti.com/wp-content/them...ls=170,174,185

  5. #25
    Elite Member GManBart's Avatar
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    Belleville, MI
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    Massey Ferguson 241, Massey Ferguson 2244 crawler, Case 580 Super M Series 2

    Default Re: Maybe gonna trade my DK40se(shuttle shift) for hydro DK40HST???

    Quote Originally Posted by kiotiken View Post
    There's always an implement or task that needs more hp, and a DK50 is still a relatively small tractor. My dealer never brought in any CK27's, they said the price diff. to the CK30 was to small (only about $800 at the time). There's a big price difference between the DK40 and DK50 (many $K) and many people see the DK40 as a sweet spot between tractor and price. There's also not much difference between the DK45 and DK50 in PTO hp. If you look at Kioti specs, there's 1.5hp between the open station HST models and the DK45 actually has .5 hp MORE on the cabbed model (you have to love Kioti's website). There's more profit in the DK50 and I think that's a big motivator when your dealer decided to only stock the DK50.

    http://www.kioti.com/wp-content/them...ls=170,174,185
    It does appear they have an error on the specs for the 45....the 40HST and 40HST Cabbed have the same PTO power, as do the 50HST and 50HST cab models. It makes no sense that the 45HST cabbed would have 2hp more PTO power than the open station.

    Regardless, if you take a DK40SE HST Cab, and turn on the AC, you're down to working with something like 26-27hp, which is pretty low for the size machine it is. With your 45, it's still down to probably right around 30-31hp in the same configuration, which could be marginal if you size your implements for the amount of PTO power you have without the AC on....and you know that's how people will likely do it.

    I'm not saying other factors might have come into play, but I can certainly see why a dealer might not want to stock a 40 or 45hp tractor that loses a significant amount of power to AC loss...they can always get one pretty easily if somebody wants one. My dealer just said they don't recommend less than the 50 in a cabbed model....that's all. If somebody wants one, they'll gladly sell them one.

  6. #26
    Platinum Member grm61's Avatar
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    Apr 2009
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    599
    Location
    Eastern Washington
    Tractor
    2013 Kioti DK45SE HST Cab

    Default Re: Maybe gonna trade my DK40se(shuttle shift) for hydro DK40HST???

    Quote Originally Posted by GManBart View Post
    It does appear they have an error on the specs for the 45....the 40HST and 40HST Cabbed have the same PTO power, as do the 50HST and 50HST cab models. It makes no sense that the 45HST cabbed would have 2hp more PTO power than the open station.

    Regardless, if you take a DK40SE HST Cab, and turn on the AC, you're down to working with something like 26-27hp, which is pretty low for the size machine it is. With your 45, it's still down to probably right around 30-31hp in the same configuration, which could be marginal if you size your implements for the amount of PTO power you have without the AC on....and you know that's how people will likely do it.

    I'm not saying other factors might have come into play, but I can certainly see why a dealer might not want to stock a 40 or 45hp tractor that loses a significant amount of power to AC loss...they can always get one pretty easily if somebody wants one. My dealer just said they don't recommend less than the 50 in a cabbed model....that's all. If somebody wants one, they'll gladly sell them one.
    Here's my take...I dont think the manufacturer would advertise for instance, the DK40 HST Cab at 32.5 pto hp with AC as standard equipment, but if you turn on the ACyou only have 27...really? The Tractor started out at 41 hp. I understand the HST robs some power.

    That would not be good buisness if you bought a implement that required 30 Pto horsepower, and The tractor was rated at 32.5 and would not run it with the AC on. I really don't think Kioti would do that..

    I would be willing to bet that the PTO hp is rated with the power robbing systems (AC) running...purely speculation on my part. Kioti has made a pretty good name for themselves. I just don't see it.

  7. #27
    Elite Member GManBart's Avatar
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    Belleville, MI
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    Massey Ferguson 241, Massey Ferguson 2244 crawler, Case 580 Super M Series 2

    Default Re: Maybe gonna trade my DK40se(shuttle shift) for hydro DK40HST???

    Quote Originally Posted by grm61 View Post
    Here's my take...I dont think the manufacturer would advertise for instance, the DK40 HST Cab at at 32.5 pto hp with AC as standard equipment but if you turn it on you only have 27...really?

    That would not be good buisness, if you bought a implement that required 30 Pto horsepower, and The tractor was rated at 32.5 and would not run it with the AC on.

    I would be willing to bet that the PTO hp is rated with the power robbing systems (AC) running...purely speculation on my part.
    So you think they put a bigger engine in the cab model to make up for the loss to AC? Not likely. They list both cab, and open station as having 41 gross HP, and 32.5 PTO HP....so tat theory doesn't work.

    Even the concept of gross HP is flawed (and why they don't advertise cars this way any longer)....it doesn't include known losses like turning transmissions, and accessories, but that's what they give for engine power. I don't see why they'd switch to net PTO power, but it would certainly be a more realistic/accurate number.

  8. #28
    Platinum Member grm61's Avatar
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    Apr 2009
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    599
    Location
    Eastern Washington
    Tractor
    2013 Kioti DK45SE HST Cab

    Default Re: Maybe gonna trade my DK40se(shuttle shift) for hydro DK40HST???

    Who knows...One would think, they would have to have a pretty accurate measurement on PTO HP on a tractor...Its kind of important.
    Something to think about before making a purchase for sure.

  9. #29
    Veteran Member
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    Feb 2012
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    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Tractor
    KIOTI DK50 HST

    Default Re: Maybe gonna trade my DK40se(shuttle shift) for hydro DK40HST???

    The choice between HST and gear is not a choice for me. HST all the way. I have ran a few gear units and was not impressed. Field work would be the only situation I would consider a gear unit. As far as HP buy as much as you can afford, 60 would be just about right for me! I am approaching 300 hours at just over a year, so the tractor does get used and again buy as much HP as you can afford. As far as the dealer making more money on the higher HP units I really doubt it with Michigan Iron, He makes marginal money on these units. He keeps the doors open and treats their customers great.
    Kioti DK50HST Cab
    401 FEL
    Saws, 338xp,346xp mod,372xp mod, 390xp, Stihl combi 130 trimmer.

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