Gary in NJ
Member
After a lot of research and some seat time, I've purchased a new SCUT. I went into the process without love or hate for any brand, giving them all equal consideration (to be fair, I didn't test the JD 1 series...just because I didn't want to join the "green" cult). I priced all of the machines with a 60" MMM, 48" Loader, Backhoe w/12" bucket and Thumb. I went and test drove a Massey Ferguson GC1720 TLB, Mahindra eMax 25, Kubota BX26D and Kioti CS2410. I wanted to see the LS J2023H but couldn't find one locally. I sat on a New Holland Boomer 25 and just instantly hated it. It felt cramped and awkward. Could have just been a bad day...but it didn't seem to be of the same quality as other SCUT's. Knowing that the Boomer 25 is the same machine as the LS J2023H (with the exception of the pedals), I didn't feel the need to seek an LS J-series out.
The four machines I tested were all VERY similar, with each having something a little better then the others and each having something not quite as good. I think I liked the eMax the most, but it was priced significantly higher then the others. I even went to two dealers to see if I could improve the pricing. While I did get a better quote, it was still the most expensive (a $5,000 difference in the out the door price spread between most expensive and least). I also liked the GC1720, but the dealer was an over an hour away. The Kubota and Kioti dealers were very close to my home. Given how similar these machines are, and the fact that the MSRP price is within a few hundred dollars of each other, my final choice came down to these two machines.
I know that the Kubota BX line is the benchmark for the SCUT class. The BX25D is well equipped and very comfortable to operate...but it does have its flaws. For example; the engine needs to be spun-up to 2500 rpm to get the hydraulics to react as the other machines do at idle. All of the machines I looked at are 23 to 25hp, but the BX25D has the smallest engine...so it has to spin faster (3200 rpm) to make the same HP that the others make at 2800 or 3000 rpm. The controls for the FEL and BH seem like an afterthought. They are awkward and don't appear or feel as high a quality as the machine itself. Apparently when the BX series first came out there were complaints about how abruptly the machine stopped when the operator took his/her foot off of the forward and reverse pedals. Kubota "corrected" this by making the transition gradual. In my opinion, the machine just doesn't seem to react to the change of input quickly enough. The machine continues to move when your foot is off the pedal. I'm sure I would get use to this, but I don't like it. The build quality is great and the hydraulic lines are well placed on the machine, providing the best protection in the class.
The Kioti CS2410 isn't perfect either...but there is much to like. In the end the only flaw I could find was the angle of the steering column...it's almost vertical. This really (and I mean REALLY) bothered me as I sat on the machine. With the seat all the way back (as I need it to fit my 6'1" body) the steering wheel blocks the lower portion of the instrument panel and my arms felt like they were stretched out. But once underway and operating the machine that simply doesn't matter because you're not looking at the IP, you're looking at where you're going. And the feeling of stretched arms went away too once I was operating and turning the wheel.
I was also swayed by the offer the dealer made. Between Kioti cash incentives and the dealer discount I saved over 30% off MSRP (14% from Kioti and 16% from the dealer), with the price coming in under $17k out the door, excluding tax. As you can guess by now, I purchased the Kioti. BTW, the eMax was $21.5k and the BX25 was $19.5k. The GC1720 was quoted with 0% financing, so the price can't be fairly compared to the others.
All of the above companies offer financing, usually in two forms; standard and "zero percent". However the 0% is far from it and is in fact - worse then standard financing. What they to to achieve 0% is load the finance charge into the purchase price. So you'll get a cash price (that can be used for standard financing) and a 0% price that is usually 3,000 to 3,500 higher then the cash price. You may think "big deal, it's just trading dollars", but it's not. Since the finance charge is front loaded, if you want to pay the machine off early, or trade it in on a bigger machine...or just sell it; you've paid ALL of the financing up front. This is a 100% penalty. If you're out shopping for a tractor, avoid the 0% scam.
Anyway, my machine wont be delivered for another week as they didn't have a BH on hand that wasn't already committed. As soon as I have it in my hands, I'll post photos. My previous tractor is a Cub Cadet 3206 with a bucket, blade and blower. I will sell it and all of its attachments on Craigslist (hopefully as a package) and I'll use the proceeds of the sale to purchase a snow blower for the CS2410.
The four machines I tested were all VERY similar, with each having something a little better then the others and each having something not quite as good. I think I liked the eMax the most, but it was priced significantly higher then the others. I even went to two dealers to see if I could improve the pricing. While I did get a better quote, it was still the most expensive (a $5,000 difference in the out the door price spread between most expensive and least). I also liked the GC1720, but the dealer was an over an hour away. The Kubota and Kioti dealers were very close to my home. Given how similar these machines are, and the fact that the MSRP price is within a few hundred dollars of each other, my final choice came down to these two machines.
I know that the Kubota BX line is the benchmark for the SCUT class. The BX25D is well equipped and very comfortable to operate...but it does have its flaws. For example; the engine needs to be spun-up to 2500 rpm to get the hydraulics to react as the other machines do at idle. All of the machines I looked at are 23 to 25hp, but the BX25D has the smallest engine...so it has to spin faster (3200 rpm) to make the same HP that the others make at 2800 or 3000 rpm. The controls for the FEL and BH seem like an afterthought. They are awkward and don't appear or feel as high a quality as the machine itself. Apparently when the BX series first came out there were complaints about how abruptly the machine stopped when the operator took his/her foot off of the forward and reverse pedals. Kubota "corrected" this by making the transition gradual. In my opinion, the machine just doesn't seem to react to the change of input quickly enough. The machine continues to move when your foot is off the pedal. I'm sure I would get use to this, but I don't like it. The build quality is great and the hydraulic lines are well placed on the machine, providing the best protection in the class.
The Kioti CS2410 isn't perfect either...but there is much to like. In the end the only flaw I could find was the angle of the steering column...it's almost vertical. This really (and I mean REALLY) bothered me as I sat on the machine. With the seat all the way back (as I need it to fit my 6'1" body) the steering wheel blocks the lower portion of the instrument panel and my arms felt like they were stretched out. But once underway and operating the machine that simply doesn't matter because you're not looking at the IP, you're looking at where you're going. And the feeling of stretched arms went away too once I was operating and turning the wheel.
I was also swayed by the offer the dealer made. Between Kioti cash incentives and the dealer discount I saved over 30% off MSRP (14% from Kioti and 16% from the dealer), with the price coming in under $17k out the door, excluding tax. As you can guess by now, I purchased the Kioti. BTW, the eMax was $21.5k and the BX25 was $19.5k. The GC1720 was quoted with 0% financing, so the price can't be fairly compared to the others.
All of the above companies offer financing, usually in two forms; standard and "zero percent". However the 0% is far from it and is in fact - worse then standard financing. What they to to achieve 0% is load the finance charge into the purchase price. So you'll get a cash price (that can be used for standard financing) and a 0% price that is usually 3,000 to 3,500 higher then the cash price. You may think "big deal, it's just trading dollars", but it's not. Since the finance charge is front loaded, if you want to pay the machine off early, or trade it in on a bigger machine...or just sell it; you've paid ALL of the financing up front. This is a 100% penalty. If you're out shopping for a tractor, avoid the 0% scam.
Anyway, my machine wont be delivered for another week as they didn't have a BH on hand that wasn't already committed. As soon as I have it in my hands, I'll post photos. My previous tractor is a Cub Cadet 3206 with a bucket, blade and blower. I will sell it and all of its attachments on Craigslist (hopefully as a package) and I'll use the proceeds of the sale to purchase a snow blower for the CS2410.
