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  1. #1
    Banned viking65's Avatar
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    Default Is Kioti Viable for the Long Term??

    Any thoughts on the long term success of Kioti in the US market? Dealers dropping the Kioti line, bad dealers representing Kioti, Kioti's being sold out of not much more than a garage in some cases, dealers with little or no inventory etc... Is Kioti really gaining traction in the US market? There is quite a bit of competition. Not only do you have the big 3 JD, kubota and NH, you have Massey Ferguson/AGCO/Challenger, Mahindra, FarmTrac/Long, Branson, Montana/LG/LS, Cub Cadet, Zetor, McCormick and the Chinese brands Jinma being sold under many brand names including their own, Dong Feng, Kama and so on. Tym...China or Korea??

    I know all brands have many of the same problems, bad dealers, dropped dealers, dealers dropping brands, bad service. How is Kioti going to break out of the pack of second and third tier tractor brands? How is Kioti going to ensure long term success when they seem to be having many of the same troubles as the Chinese brands?

    I like Kioti tractors a lot. I think they are well made, great fit and finish. I was looking at a CK20 last year during my "hunt" for a new tractor. Dealer wanted top dollar, no discounts. I talked to two other Kioti dealerships, which no longer carry Kioti, they did not have much inventory to look at and one of them said he doubted he would carry Kioti in 2005. He was good on his word, they don't.

    I know Kubota struggled and made it. Is there room for another big name brand tractor in the US market? Will Kioti continue to be a fringe player? Will Kioti be able to break through like Kubota did? Did Kubota face as many competitors during their fight to grow as Kioti is facing today? Will Kioti make it? I'm not sure.

  2. #2
    Silver Member
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    Mar 2005
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    New Jersey
    Tractor
    CK30HST Loader Backhoe

    Default Re: Is Kioti Viable for the Long Term??

    Hum I hope so I just bought one.


  3. #3

    Default Re: Is Kioti Viable for the Long Term??

    Of course you're not sure. No one could be.
    Everyone seems to be making the few growing pains sound a lot worse than they are. I remember when kubota came here, and they were up against it big time.
    I don't think there's a think to worry about. Kioti sales are WAY up compared to just last year, and they're getting many of the crappy dealers out of the loop. Many mutli brand sellers were only using Kioti to "walk 'em up" to the other brand. They didn't order enough Kioties to stay with the line. Many who said, "I don't think I'll be carrying it" had been told they couldn't carry it any more due to their lack of ordering, and their practice of just using the brand to sell another.
    There has always been a good deal of competition in the tractor business. The Chinese offerings and a greater influx of gray market tractors can make some difference, but there a an awful lot of people who aren't going to even consider chinese makes for quite some time.
    I think Kioti/Daedong is in it for the long run. Daedong has been around since 1947, and I don't think they're going away here or the world.
    John

  4. #4
    Super Member Bob_Skurka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Kioti Viable for the Long Term??

    <font color="green"> I know kubota struggled and made it. Is there room for another big name brand tractor in the US market? Will Kioti continue to be a fringe player? Will Kioti be able to break through like Kubota did? Did Kubota face as many competitors during their fight to grow as Kioti is facing today? Will Kioti make it? I'm not sure. </font>


    You keep drawing parallels to Kubota, which is something I see time and time again by many people. But I don't think there are a lot of parallels when you consider that Kubota entered the CUT marketplace when there really was NO ESTABLISHED CUT MARKET in the US. Hence, Kubota really had very minimal competition in the small tractor market. Kubota followed up by really establishing itself with incredibly smooth running diesel engines, something that nobody has matched yet. Other brands of equipment sell at a premium when a Kubota diesel is offered as an option, its engine reputation is in diesel is similar to Honda's reputation with their small gas engines. Daedong does not have that reputation; Yanmar is close as is Volvo-Penta.

    Now look at the tractor market today. We have cheap Chinese tractors flooding the market for bargain hunters. We have many many choices of brands to pick from in many sizes. We have HST options that are substantially wider than the offerings from Kioti (Kioti only has 3 models) from brands like Mahindra, Massey, Case, Cub, John Deere, New Holland and Kubota. Consider the pricing issues and some people will report the Kiotis being sold at bargains, other people report them being sold at prices higher than Big 3 brands, but certainly the brand has to face competition from many more brands than Kubota had to face. Also consider that when Kubota entered the market, the 1950's era Ford farm tractors were really the tractor of choice for small property owners who were moving to their 10 acre parcels of land. Given the choice between a then 30 year old Ford and a nimble, modern, easy to use compact Kubota, many people chose the Kubota and that is how it really established much of its customer base.

    There is no question that TODAY the tractor market in the US is radically different than it was when Kubota entered the market. Making parallels is somewhat disingenuous, and basically a fallacy.

    In today's market, I think EVERY brand is going to have a tough time maintain/gaining market share in any meaningful way. A brand that doubles its sales from a basically insignificant number is still at a basically insignificant number, and that is a hurdle that is hard to overcome. A different brand with real market share loses 0.3% of its market is a problem for that brand, but it is something that they have the marketing mass to deal with, established dealers, and even advertising budgets to spend to regain or stabilize their sales.



  5. #5

    Default Re: Is Kioti Viable for the Long Term??

    I think as long as John Deere costs twice as much as the like Kioti, Kioti will be viable! I used the John Deere online "built your on" and the price was almost double for the John Deere as close as I could get to my DK55C. Boy I wish Home Depot would start selling the big John Deere tractors. I have owned several of the John Deere Lawn tractors bought at twice the price that Home Depot now sells them for. John Deere has tuff equipment that stands the test of time, and only time will tell how well Kioti will stand and last and be viable in the ever growing Tractor market!

  6. #6

    Join Date
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    Shoppin', Formerly Ford 1220, 7106 FEL, 60

    Default Re: Is Kioti Viable for the Long Term??

    The activity in the Kioti Forum has skyrocketed this spring. It seems just about every day there has been a post by a proud new Kioti owner. I was just having a conversation the other day how Kioti has become so much more "mainstream" over the past couple of years. Kioti comparisons in the general forums against the larger '3' have become commonplace.

    Seems we hear the same old war stories from a few non-Kioti owners over and over. Before you know it, a single event perpetuates a life of it's own and turns into mass dealers dropping the Kioti line.

    What I gather, the Kioti dealers that frequent TBN have been swamped with activity this year.

    Kioti has been on a dealer re-structuring program over the last couple of years (don't know the exact time frames). Since the manufacturer of Kioti(Daedong) began to directly handle Kioti's distribution in the USA the dealership network was reduced to a core level and is in an ongoing process of being rebuilt on stronger dealership foundations. Kioti sales have taken off and some growing pains are to be expected.

    IMO, the commitment has been made and Kioti is here to stay.

    Don

  7. #7
    Gold Member
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    Jun 2004
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    new hampshire
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    Kioti DK55 Cab, 3 NHs (from 40-90HP)

    Default Re: Is Kioti Viable for the Long Term??

    interesting post - this is the same concern i had 1 year ago when i started pricing/driving 50HP+ tractors. after driving and pricing tractors that met my criteria, i settled on the only concern i had with the Kioti:

    will they be around to support it?

    as KiotiJohn pointed out, the company has been around since the late 40s. their machines are used the world over, if they were not successful, they would not be in business today.

    and they wouldn't be as successful as are today.

    my dealer (Ken Valenti in s/w New Hampshire) was one of the first Kioti dealers in this country. i went to purchase a fertilizer spreader recently, and was pleasantly surprised to see his new shop. HUGE. he had at least 20-30 tractors on that lot, and that week alone, he sold 20+ tractors (some were branson models, but most were kioti).

    i did EXTENSIVE research on the brand. once i realized how long my dealer was in business, and how much market share the manufacturer has (world-wide), i realized that the company (and my dealer) were here to stay.

    fast forward 10 months: i have over 300 hrs on my DK55c, and absolutely no complaints. i hear many complaints about the 1595 loader (i don't have anything negative to say, other than the rollback could be better), and some dealer complaints, but i'm a VERY satisified customer.

    perhaps we should start a new thread that addresses "How many hours do you have?"

    pf

  8. #8
    Platinum Member
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    May 2004
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    NC
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    Kioti CK20HST

    Default Re: Is Kioti Viable for the Long Term??

    I think Kioti is doing great, but I think they are striving for something that will hurt them more than help them.

    Everybody on the "second tier" wants to expand the big three to the big four or five. I personally think that whole line of thinking is wrong. I think the big three are currently overpriced fat cats. They make EXCELLENT equipment, but I think they ask more than they are worth. I will not, ever, pay extra just for a name. I WILL, however, pay a fair price for a great piece of equipment no matter who makes it. Price and quality are the ONLY 2 factors that influence my opinion.

    What I am saying is, I think if Kioti didn't strive to become part of the big 4, but instead concentrated on building the best tractor possible and sell it at a perfectly fair... and not artificially inflated price (because their name starts getting popular), then I think they could take the market by storm. I don't see that as the path that Kioti is taking though. As they get more popular their prices are becoming more in line with the big 3 even though their basic philosophy of tractor design doesn't seem to have changed any.... ie same tractor, higher RELATIVE price as compared to the big three.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    May 2005
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    IL
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    Ford NAA

    Default Re: Is Kioti Viable for the Long Term??

    Kioti is a fine tractor, but like most things in the economy these days overcapacity is the problem. If kioti does not survive as it will not be there fault it will be that they have had bad timing. We are looking at the end of the gravy train of the last half century. When companies are sitting on billions of cash because they cannot find way to invest it, and when every city in america now has a dozen places to buy what ever you need, and when borrowing money to have "stuff" is considered doing well... Sorry to get off topic, but my point is that kioti's survival will have less to do with them but rather the state of the economy and chinese competition.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member RedRocker's Avatar
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    Apr 2004
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    Lewisville & Montague County, TX
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    Kioti CK30 HST, dual remotes, FEL.

    Default Re: Is Kioti Viable for the Long Term??

    I think the Boomer generation will fuel a tractor boom as they move toward retirement and move to the country.

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