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  1. #41
    Silver Member
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    Tennessee
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    Ford 8n/ Kioti DK45S

    Default Re: Cowlitz Tractor, Ha Ha Ha

    It's sort of funny if you think about it. Everything we have talked about here is based on fear. Everybody is afraid they're gonna lose out. From the manufacturer to the dealer to the customer......EVERYBODY. In the same breath everybody says that all they want is to be treated fairly. but because they are afraid, nobody treats the other one that way. We all try to protect ourselves from getting taken by being vague in our request as well as our reply. We don't want to give out too much information. Somehow we think it will keep the other guy honest. All it really does is feed the fire.

    Just thought it was an interesting observation.

    Mankind....the newest oxymoron (or maybe the first)

  2. #42
    Platinum Member
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    NC
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    Kioti CK20HST

    Default Re: Cowlitz Tractor, Ha Ha Ha

    Yes, but the consumer is the only one with something at stake (extra money) and as at by far the biggest disadvantage.

    The consumer is playing ball on their court, with their ball, and their rules. For example, even whispering about a trade in before a mutually agreeable fair price has been agreed upon for the car or tractor changes the deal in their eyes. Mention credit, and the deal changes when it shouldn't.

  3. #43
    Super Member Bob_Skurka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cowlitz Tractor, Ha Ha Ha

    <font color="red"> Mention credit, and the deal changes when it shouldn't. </font>


    Getut, I agree in principle with much of what you say, but in the real world there are costs associated with lots of things. Not to nit-pick, but just to show an example, the credit issue above does change the equasion simply because it does impose extra burdens, often mandated by law, often mandated by the manufacturer, often a combination of both. The service issue is another one that in the real world changes things.

    Customer asks me a price for some of my goods (please understand I don't sell tractors or tractor equipment), I learned long ago to ask the customer questions. Delivery included? What are the other items you are buying? What is your buying frequency? What is the total quantity of goods per buy? Now you may go back and say that I should simply price "fairly" in this internet age and then I will have customers flock to me (actually that is what you suggested to Barrent), but to me that is a sure way of going broke. It is pricing out of ignorance on my part. Realistically if you buy 1 time then I have to fit you into my schedule as an "exception" and if the order is too small it may not even generate enough gross profit to bother to process it, if the order requires delivery, and makes enough margin to process it I still have to ask if the order generates enough profit to deliver it, and if credit is involved then I have to factor in the cost of money and DEDUCT that from my profit, or I have to raise the price to cover the cost, and if it is a holiday week I'll have to factor in overtime for labor, and if you have a specific time you need the order then I have to rearrange the order picking shedule or arrange for special labor . . . and yet I still have to be competitive in the marketplace.

    Many of the inquiries I see come in to my company are simply "fishing" for price, hoping to get us to commit and then the customer decides to change the rules, or more often the customer simply lies about the service level they expect, or volume they will purchase, or both. Just as Barrent pointed out in his post, many times we get customers requesting pricing without providing us any detail at all on what they are looking for, heck there is a cost associated with responding to stupid inquiries. I had a college representative in here Friday afternoon who was working on opeing a store/cafe on campus and didn't even know what to ask, so I ran him through an entire education on what he needed (normally one of my sales guys would do that but he was from my alma mater so I took it personally) and spent an hour with the guy knowing darn well that it is simply not meant to be, and that cost has to be factored into my overhead because while I usually don't handle those situations, we have to have people here for that purpose.

    We also get the split-supplier customers . . . those are the people who buy 1/2 of their stuff from one guy and then 1/2 from another guy to keep the 2 of them honest. The reality is that both of the suppliers end up selling at a higher price than if just one supplier sold to the customer because "fixed costs" have to be factored into a smaller profit sale. That is why my tractor dealers who sell me tractors know with confidence that I will come back for oil, implements, filters, etc. I get great prices based on what I see posted on TBN, I also get great service, and the dealership knows that when I need a filter I will swing back in there for the genuine replacement part instead of saving 73-cents on the NAPA copy. So I spend an extra $5 or $10 per year on oil and filters buying from my dealer . . . he beat the competitors price on the tractor by over $2000 simply because he knows he won a committed, repeat customer. So when my dealer installed my rear remotes recently, he also replaced a hose and clamp that started leaking, and didn't charge me for it.

    I grew up giving 'my word' as the ultimate statement of commitment. I still try to do business that way. But real life has changed and customers are often weasels. I'd rather shrink my business than deal with a dishonest abusing PITA customer. Funny thing is that I find the sophisticated larger customers are the most reasonable overall . . . they understand that business transactions have to be "win-win" they understand pricing philosophy and gladly pay a higher price with less hassel to get what they need.

    Now none of that excuses Cowlitz tractor for not following up, but we also don't know their side of the story. Maybe, just maybe, they didn't get enough information to give a legitimate inquiry? Or maybe, as in the article posted by murph, Cowlitz dropped the ball and screwed up.


  4. #44
    Epic Contributor Bird's Avatar
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    Texas

    Default Re: Cowlitz Tractor, Ha Ha Ha

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( All it really does is feed the fire. )</font>

    Cowboyjg, unfortunately, I'm afraid you're right in your assessment. I'm just at an age, I won't play the game anymore with salesmen. I tell them up front what I want, they can tell me a price, and I'll either buy it or not. I may ask prices from several dealers but I don't tell one dealer what another dealer has quoted; I just buy from the one I want to buy from.

    It just amazes me how some dealers, especially car dealers, can stay in business with the tactics they use. It appears to me that they depend on customers who are ignorant, and while there are certanly some such customers, I wouldn't think there would be enough to keep them going.

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( the consumer is the only one with something at stake (extra money) and as at by far the biggest disadvantage )</font>

    getut, I don't see it that way. The seller and the consumer both have the same thing at stake; money. The consumer would like to "save" a little of his money, and the seller has to get enough of that money to stay in business. So it seems to me that if one has an advantage, it's the consumer; he doesn't have to buy from that dealer. In fact, he doesn't have to buy at all, but the dealer has to make some sales or he's out of a job. Admittedly, the consumer may not know how much profit the dealer is making, and he may not know what kind of overhead the dealer has, but to me, that isn't important. He can always go to another dealer if he thinks the current one is too high priced.

    I think Bob Skurka pretty well described how things are and how they should be.

  5. #45
    Platinum Member TractorLegend's Avatar
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    Randle, WA
    Tractor
    2012 DK 45HST SE w/ FEL

    Default Re: Cowlitz Tractor, Ha Ha Ha

    Another thing a salesman can chump himself out of is referrals. For example one of your favorite customers sends a friend/ acquaintance and told them about your business. This is the best kind of advertising. It's free.
    The referred one is not a great communicator and doesn't tell you who sent them, all their exact needs or says something that stereotypes them as a "bad" customer. You blow them off.
    The referred one tells their friend, who is happy with your business, about their poor experience with you. The great customer then forgets to tell the whole world how great you are. Word of mouth can be good or bad. And it's hard to argue with.

  6. #46
    Epic Contributor Bird's Avatar
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    Texas

    Default Re: Cowlitz Tractor, Ha Ha Ha

    Yep, word of mouth is still probably the best advertising you can get.

  7. #47
    Platinum Member
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    NC
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    Kioti CK20HST

    Default Re: Cowlitz Tractor, Ha Ha Ha

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( the credit issue above does change the equasion simply because it does impose extra burdens, often mandated by law, often mandated by the manufacturer, often a combination of both. )</font>
    I'm very sorry to have led the conversation to that. I kind of meant to because I wanted to use that as an example. You are absolutely correct. But the financing is a deal that is haggled in and of itself. It carries its own fees that are associated with it. It is a serparate entity paid for by itself.

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Delivery included? What are the other items you are buying? What is your buying frequency? What is the total quantity of goods per buy? )</font>

    You make another excellent point for me. Bob, I have never met you in person, but you seem like an honest, nice individual. What you say above is one thing that shows it. You don't try to hide costs that are "rolled in". You are not obfuscating anything. You are telling the consumer the way it has to be to be fair to both him and you. You are not just "rolling up the cost" to that level for all people and then only bringing it down to the people educated enough to catch on to what you are doing. You are pricing fairly to begin with, and if you have to INCREASE prices, then you are giving the consumer excellent reasons why you are doing so that he will respect you for. I am absolutely sure that any realistic buyer of your goods can live with that and be a happy customer.

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( getut, I don't see it that way. The seller and the consumer both have the same thing at stake; money. The consumer would like to "save" a little of his money, and the seller has to get enough of that money to stay in business.)</font>
    Kind of true, but most of the time, we can safely assume that the dealer will never offer a product for sale for less than 0 profit. I realize sometimes specials are run "loss leaders" are the term I believe. But that is what educated consumers can do these days. Consumers have vast information at their fingertips and can find those "loss leaders" and then not pay the inflated prices for the rest of the goods. This is exactly what dealers get peeved about, but for the most part, lets assume that dealers will never offer at less than 0 clear profit. Anything above that is bonus. They never lose anything. Only gain a little or gain a lot. The consumer is the only one who can TRULY lose in that type of deal.

  8. #48
    Member
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    S.W. Florida
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    kioti

    Default Re: Cowlitz Tractor, Ha Ha Ha

    I am glad to see that my first post has received such a response.

    My main point the other night is that the customer thinks that the tractor can be sold for $500.00 over cost and some dealers can do that. If I had a tractor business at my Dad's old farm with a pole barn in the back and no employees this would be no problem.

    But when a dealership has more to offer they need to charge more and when the customer pays more he needs to expect more. Immediate service, dealer eating certain repairs that the warranty does not pay. Free delivery, free loaner for the weekend until his is repaired, and a deal on future purchases. All of this will add up to more or less of a loss of profit depending on the customer. I do not want to nickle and dime him with every pin and bolt that he broke. I had this done to me when I bought tractors and equipment. You drop down $10,000 to $30,000 on a machine and you beg to get a free hat.

    Another thing is that a dealership can not make any money on a customer for 3 years untill the warranty runs out. At $500.00 over cost, 3 yrs is a long time. Is this when you tell him that the shop rate just went up to $80.00 instead of $50.00 when he purchased it. These Kiotis do not breakdown any way so repair service is out of the question.

    My final point would be that the differences in price of tractors is because the higher priced dealer should have more to offer. When a customer goes to a dealership he needs to check out the dealership more than the tractor. If the price is high with nothing to offer the customer, except a tractor, then the customer needs to find another dealer.

    You can not sell a dealership on the email and that is what dealers are really selling, otherwise all Kioti tractors would be on ebay.

    Barrettseq


  9. #49
    Silver Member
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    Tennessee
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    Ford 8n/ Kioti DK45S

    Default Re: Cowlitz Tractor, Ha Ha Ha

    If you are being upfront and honest about what you can do as a dealer, then pats on the back to you. The sad part is that most do not. The interesting thing is that it is a choice not the result of some unavoidable circumstance. I also don't see a problem with the internet a medium to sell either the dealership, the tractor or both. I think that Carver Equipment is a good example of a dealership who works hard to let people know they are a customer comitted dealership with good prices and fair prices. I'm not saying they have the perfect situation, I am however saying that they make a concious effort to incorporate the internet as the viable tool it is. And even if they didn't use the net I feel, based on my experience with them, that they would still try to be a good dealership. That is is difference and that is the choice.

    The feeling I have gotten is that many seem to think they're doing you a favor. I thought I found a deal not far from the house in Tn. Called last Wed am....Left the necessary info....didn't hear anything so I followed up on Friday afternoon. Sat am I got a call to my voice mail with the quote. I tried to return the call but no answer. Monday am I called again.....spoke to the OWNER (Family dealership) said he would fax me all the details and the credit app I had requested. It's Wed am, one weak later and I'm really no further ahead. Had the sale been important to him we'd both be drooling over with anticipation (albeit for different reasons.) of my new tractors arrival.

    In an effort to be proactive I called yet another dealer. This one is a little further away. I have a limited window of time to work with and need to place the order so it arrives while I'm up there. This guy was a hoot. I called, a woman answered, I said I needed to speak to someone about a tractor purchase...."ok" was all she said and transfered my call....some guy picks up and says "Hellllloooooo" (Text doesn't do it justice).....and that's it.....so I said it back the same way.....pregnant pause.....I said "who am I speaking to please"....another pregnant pause.....he says "Let's say I'm Paul"......I'm thinking to my self a few other things but I agreed to call him Paul. We talked about tractors and what I wanted.....Told him I wanted to finance it thru the manufacturer....."I use a local bank" he said. "It won't be the same if you want to use that CHEAP money...I don't even like to do it". I asked what the bank rates were and he told me what I already thought, about 7-9%. So I asked (again already knowing the answer to my question) "So how does it help me? I use the bank with the higher rate, you give me a lower price on the tractor. I use the manufacturer with the lower rate and you give me a higher price on the tractor."... Is there gonna be that much of a difference in the price to offset the rate?...another pregnant pause.... "Have you looked at them Farmtrac's?"....he said. When all was said and done he said that he'd get me a quote on what I asked for in the first place and that I'd have it sometime today. Whew....I'm tired. This is actually one of the better experiences in my "Hunt".

    I just thought a true story would fun.


  10. #50
    Veteran Member RedRocker's Avatar
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    Lewisville & Montague County, TX
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    Kioti CK30 HST, dual remotes, FEL.

    Default Re: Cowlitz Tractor, Ha Ha Ha

    Geeze, must be something in the water up there. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

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