Price Check CK20 HST questions, pricing, FEL cracks, HST pedal bushing issues etc.

   / CK20 HST questions, pricing, FEL cracks, HST pedal bushing issues etc. #1  

malk315

Silver Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Messages
218
Location
Lancaster, MA
Tractor
Kioti CK20 HST
Hi all-

I've been surfing TBN for like 5 years now and finally pulling the trigger on CK20 HST -- I remember when Kioti first announced the new model and have been watching them since.

Also been watching Kubota B7510 / 7610 and a friend just bought one. I've always been a bit partial to the Kioti styling and easier viewing FEL w/ curved arms that are closer to the hood and the wider stance of the front tires. If you want pictures of them on one web page from the Woodstock, CT fair in 2003, I've got a web page I put together:

http://www.malknet.org/tractors/index.html

If I buy the CK20, my buddy and I (we live in same neighborhood) plan on making a web page with the two tractors compared in groddy detail w/ pictures of both machines for all TBN'ers to enjoy. We're both computer geeks, so hopefully we'll come up with something nice.

So -- I got a quote from a dealer yesterday who I feel is best because they are honest and seem to have the best price in Mass / Connecticut / New Hampshire area.

CK20 HST w/ turfs, KL120 loader w/ 54" bucket and, rear tire ballast. 60" MMM with side discharge -- 18% off list price @:

$15,380.00

Same thing w/ rear discharge MMM is $15,565.00

Without the deck, it would be pretty darn close to $13K -- maybe even a bit under which I think is great for the HST CK20 in New England.

All of the above is with the 0% for 30 months financing which I plan to use as a convenience for getting the machine purchased while I arrange the various chunks of $$$ I plan to use to actually pay for it.

They've been selling Kioti for about 3 years now, they also sell a bunch of GEHL excavators, skidsteers, etc. (impressive inventory) so I think they're experience w/ heavy diesel powered equipment should be competent. They're website is http://www.harvardpower.com They've got a slew of CK20, 25's, and 30's on site, some setup as TLB.

I asked them what kinds of problems they've seen w/ the Kiotis to see if they'd be as honest about that as they are w/ disclosure of their pricing and he told me about the FEL cracking issue, and how Kioti has acknowledged it, and how TBN has been talking about it.

They also told me about the HST pedal having a bushing problem where when its bad enough, you have to literally stand on the pedal to get it to move. I think that is very dangerous (I don't want to be running over my kids or putting the tractor through the back of my shed when trying to put it away), so I'm interested in any responses from TBNers on this. I realize the pedal could probably use lube (WD-40 or PB blaster) and Kioti recommends it every so often, but the bushing problem I think is different. The dealer told me (I ** think ** I remember him saying this, so don't quote me) they take some part that normally goes on the CK25 or CK30 and replace the CK20 pedal w/ that to alleviate the problem.

The only negative comment I can think of w/ this dealer is the machine I was looking at had a pretty good divot in the roll bar w/ rust. The shroud for the PTO shaft on the back was missing and the shaft was covered in rust. Also, the 3 point ball swivels were pretty rusty, and the HST pedal was a bit stiff (probably the lube thing). I'm the kind of guy that when I buy new, I'd really like no rust on anything -- I needs to really look totally new. So I'm hoping I can request I get machine that's freshly assembled and has seen little or no rain -- I do plan to store mine inside a shed / garage and prefer to start out w/ no / as little rust as possibly anywhere. Swapping the roll bar, 3 point arms for ones w/ no rust would probably make me happy -- I assume the output shaft for rear PTO is bound to get rusty no matter what unless it were covered w/ a cap or a layer of grease was put on it for which I have no clue what's best when PTO isn't in use as I have no experience w/ a 3 point setup. Comments welcome.

After visiting TBN to look for comments about the problems above, I very much appreciated their honesty as that's all I've gotten from Mike and Tom at Harvardpower with dealing with them. So I plan to purchase from them for their honesty / disclosure of price, issues, inventory, and apparent capability to service the machine.

I plan to enjoy not needing tools, a helper, and way too much time to take the 42" deck off my Toro Wheel horse Classic 315 and man-handle the tractor and Kwikway loader / subframe / weight box to get it on for a quick job of moving dirt, stone, wood, etc. and then changing it all back because I have to mow again in a week!

For the summer, spring, w/ the CK I plan to mow w/ loader off and put it on as needed to do things I used to use the wheel barrow for (or kwikway when annoyed enough that it's worth the effort to horse the loader onto the tractor). For late fall and winter, the deck will come off along w/ arms at the front to re-gain full ground clearance and loader will stay on all the time for cool and cold weather outdoor projects.

I'd like to hear any comments from you guys as I value everyone's opinion. Does the price seem good? remember New England is usually more expensive than places like Steve Carver's and the mid west.

Who's had problems with their HST pedal (really the bushing stand on the pedal problem is what I'm more interested in rather than just periodic lubing to keep it moving nice). Also -- who's has FEL cracking issues? How do you know it's cracked -- did you hear something let go? did you just happen to notice it by chance?

I anticipate w/in a week or two my buddy Jeff and I will post some pictures of the B7510 and CK20 side-by-side for all to enjoy.
 
   / CK20 HST questions, pricing, FEL cracks, HST pedal bushing issues etc. #2  
Here is the primary thread on the cracking issue. Quite a bit of reading but it should make you fully informed.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79892

I have a CK30-HST so I cannot comment on any of your other questions but I personally feel that it is as important to select a good dealer, as it is to select a good machine. Machines will always need repairs and maintenance of some sort or another and when you have big problems a good dealer will be able to help you through them. Many good dealers regularly participate in this forum. You might consider checking them out for price and proximity. Good Luck on you search.
 
   / CK20 HST questions, pricing, FEL cracks, HST pedal bushing issues etc. #3  
I think the 20 is a great tractor, and that sounds like a very good price also.

My tractor lives outside and the hst pedal is a little stiff after 10 months. If you keep yours inside and well lubed, you shouldn't have a problem.

My problem with it is that it keeps going after releasing the pedal. I have learned to push and return the pedal to center. Not just lift my foot to stop.

Enjoy your new Kioti!

Jim
 
   / CK20 HST questions, pricing, FEL cracks, HST pedal bushing issues etc. #4  
Welcome malk315,
I bought my ck25 w fel & bh from harvard outdoor power. I was originally looking at the ck20 but ended up with the ck25, and at the time they gave me a great deal. They beat a New Hampshire dealer by about $1,500 after tax and would deliver it as well.
I'm one of the ck25 owners with small cracks in the loader, I spoke with Tom a while back just to go on record with them and he said that Kioti was aware of the problem. There was no hearing it let go, but without TBN I would have never thought to pull the cover and check for them. If you tell Mike your concerns with the ck20's overall condition he may order you one or be able to get one from another dealer by swaping stock or be able to address those concerns. I have not had one regret about getting the Kioti and from buying it from Harvard Outdoor Power. (sorry if it sounds like a plug)
Good luck with your CK20.
 
   / CK20 HST questions, pricing, FEL cracks, HST pedal bushing issues etc. #5  
If you buy a new CK20HST the HST pedal bushing issue has been corrected. There is a service bulletin and they have updated the CK20HST tractors by installing a bushing, the tractors that had the problems with stiff HST pedals are the ones without the bushings. We have installed about 8 of them in CK20HST tractors with no further problems.
 
   / CK20 HST questions, pricing, FEL cracks, HST pedal bushing issues etc. #6  
Why would you consider spending your hard earned $15k on a brand that has cracking FELs and problematic HST pedals. Consider spending that money on an established brand or if you don't mind turning a wrench and want to really save some $$$ buy a Chinese tractor. Kioti charges as much as the established brands for their tractors but all you are getting is a pretty good paint job on a Chinese quality tractor in my opinion.
 
   / CK20 HST questions, pricing, FEL cracks, HST pedal bushing issues etc. #7  
Hard, did you forget about the bent tie rods and the filters on the underside that get torn off. :eek:

Now in all honestly, the Kioti tractors are nicer than the Lenars or Jinmas. They have some pretty good ergonomics and some good capacities compared to some of the other brands. The engines are good, but I tend to think the tractors need to be refined a bit more.
 
   / CK20 HST questions, pricing, FEL cracks, HST pedal bushing issues etc. #8  
Wow, I can't think of a tractor brand that doesn't have problems. I heard stories about every brand breaking this weekend at the farm show..... boy do them established brands get the bashing too... seems them things do have problems too....

Bob..... I still don't understand what you think needs to be refined... All other brands at the show this weekend I saw, including the green, blue other orange and red, seem rough.... from the castings to the plastics and them some.... weak looking rear axles, small diameter rockshafts, tiny front axles and flexing fenders. I wish I was closer to you and we could spend the day tractor shoppin....

The reason we started selling Kioti is becasue we bought one... wasn't in the tractor business till then....
 
   / CK20 HST questions, pricing, FEL cracks, HST pedal bushing issues etc. #9  
I bought my CK20HST TLB from Harvard Power. They have been great to deal with and very honest about what problems have been noted with the CK20. If I had to do the whole thing over again I'd go back to Harvard Power and get the same tractor (especially after they fix the FEL issue).

All tractors will have issues, I don't see the CK20 as having any more than other well known brands. They get a fair amount of press on TBN because the Kioti group is pretty active compared to some of the others (Bob S hangs out here because the NH group is just too boring:D ). I compared it closely to the 7510 and am happy with my choice. The fit and finish were every bit as good as on the Kubota and the Kioti was clearly a more recent design and had features like position control that were missing on the Kubota. Loader capacity is better too.

I am sure that Kubota will bring out an updated model soon that will equal or surpass the Kioti features but for now the CK20 is the best bang for the buck out there in this size range. I have heard the TYMs are nice but they are more money (and power) and have an even smaller dealer network. If I were just looking for a mowing machine I would be tempted by the Kubota BX series with MMM but I use my tractor in much rougher terrain than optimal for the BX.

The price you quote for the CK20 seems pretty fair for this part of the country. I got mine for less but it was used (28hrs on it as the original owner traded up to the CK30). I looked at the MMM but am glad I did not get it. It is very expensive compared to either the Kioti or any other decent brand RFM. There are a bunch of threads on TBN regarding the advantages and disadantages of MMM vs RFM so I guess you have already educated yourself on that issue. I would personally not plan to take off the FEL on a regular basis. I haven't taken mine off yet but I doubt it is quite as easy as dealing with a 3PT attachment and that is not trivial. Get Mike or Tom to demo the FEL removal if you are really planning on doing that regularly.

Bottom line for me is a thumbs up on both the CK20 and Harvard Power.
 
   / CK20 HST questions, pricing, FEL cracks, HST pedal bushing issues etc. #10  
IslandTractor said:
(Bob S hangs out here because the NH group is just too boring:D ).
Yup Ed, I'll admit that.

But I will disagree with you about Kubota coming out with a tractor similar to the CK, I seriously doubt they will. In the small tractor category the B7510 comes in several varieties from narrow built machines to turf specials but all are ultra-light and of modest capacity. It is a tiny little tractor by most standards. Next up are their 24hp machines and are more the size of the CK20 in physical size but offering more PTO hp to give tiller, PHD and mower decks more power than the CK20 can muster. No question the CK20 has more weight and is better at blade work, but in the small class machines, most users are not doing ground engaging work (at least as a % of their total hours but that is not to say there are not some legitimate exceptions who bought a CK20 specifically for those attributes). I suspect that Kubota will give up that part of the buying market because it is a fairly small market segment and stick with light weigh mowing machines that have more PTO hp for their size than other brands. Heck they blow away the NH for power to weight ratio and NH's smallest machines blow away power to weight ratios of the Kioti and offer slightly more capacity too.
depratt_equip said:
Bob..... I still don't understand what you think needs to be refined... All other brands at the show this weekend I saw, including the green, blue other orange and red, seem rough.... from the castings to the plastics and them some.... weak looking rear axles, small diameter rockshafts, tiny front axles and flexing fenders. I wish I was closer to you and we could spend the day tractor shoppin....
Jon, I've owned all 3 of the Big 3 and currently own 2 of them. I also have operated and/or owned several brands including restoring antiques. Perhaps I am fickled. But you mention flexing fenders and that is a feature I currently enjoy. I've got a steel hooded/fendered tractor that is all dented up and a flexible plastic hooded/fendered machine that has taken more hits to it with no signs of damage save a small scratch or two.

As for 'weak looking' this or 'small diameter' that, it seems to me that that is a load of (please don't take this personally) "B.S." (and no, I am not referring to my initials :D) because we should all be aware that different types of metal yield different strengths. It no longer takes heavy castings to make for strong castings and many thinner castings can be far stronger if the right metals are used.

I do agree with you that EVERY BRAND has plenty of isolated breakdowns.

But it strikes me that the more I see of the CK series (please do not take this as any condemnation of the DK series) tractors that I see the same issues reported time and time again. I actually have recommeded the CK on several occasions, I've driven and played with the 20 & 30 and they are nice looking machines. But the regular and repeated problems do tend to be bothersome. The loader control valves break at the ball joint way too often and rather than changing the design, the 'fix' seems to be to tell people they should not enter/exit the right side of the tractor! The hydraulic filters have been torn off the bottom of many of the CK30s. The loader issue is well known and while it is in the process of being fixed it is still an issue to consider when buying the CK series. The tie rods on the CK series also seem to be in a very vulnerable position and bends are reported too darn often for my comfort.

Don't get me wrong, they are nice looking tractors and I'm on the record as loving the loaders for their view and their capacity. The tractors are reasonably comfortable too, although I think the CK20 seat is a bit thin (that just might be a problem with my rear end :eek: )

Every tractor can and likely will break. The problems mentioned in this thread are problems that have come up time & time again. Each has had multiple threads dedicated to it. There was no-nitpicking on my part about anything with fit & finish, or rough castings which you seem to imply in your post. I never did that nor did I ever imply it. In fact you are the first person to mention those types of things in the thread.

I suppose that when I buy a tractor I expect all of it to work without having to learn the a bunch of tricks that are not outlined in the owners manual or to make a bunch of modifications to protect fragile parts.
 
 
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