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  1. #1
    Silver Member
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    Berkshires, MA
    Tractor
    DK45s with cab

    Default Grapples, remotes and snow blowers...

    Ok - I've picked the machine I'm going to buy but not the dealer yet...narrowed it to 2 - my local dealer isn't interested in my business at competitive prices...

    FYI, Wallace has been great with helping me on many pricing and newbie info items..

    Here's where i stand:

    CK30HST
    Woods 1012 loader
    Woods 80X hoe with thumb
    Quick Attach
    Canopy
    Grill Guard
    Woods 60" Brush Bull (clutch type)
    Woods 72" Back Blade
    Woods Landscape Rake 72 inch or 84 inch

    So here are my dilemmas/questions...

    Question #1

    I like the Millonzi grapple and have a price of $1,749 for the 66 LD version. I don't know if that includes the diverter valve or not ( I should but I don't). Here's what I don't understand...when you add a second set of hydraulic outlets at the rear (called remotes??), you need to run hoses to the front to control the grapple open and close function...so far so good, but what do you use in your right hand to actually tell the grapple to open and close? a trigger on the loader stick?

    Also, if you put a diverter valve in to control the grapple from the loader hydraulics - this disables the bucket curl function while the grapple opens and closes, correct?

    So there seem to be 3 options to control the grapple:

    a. unplug the hoe and run the new lines from the rear to the grapple. Control the grapple open/close via some sort of control by the loader joystick (cost is about $475)
    b. add a second set of remotes at the rear and run the new lines to the grapple and control the grapple somehow at the loader joystick (cost is about $900)
    c. add a diverter valve on the loader cross beam and alternate loader curl/grapple open/close (cost is $675)

    I think that's right anyway! Which of the 3 options would you prefer and why??? Do these costs seem reasonable? Would they change substantially if i did it myself (i'm not interested in saving 30%!)...


    Question #2.

    I want to move snow this winter (which feels like it's arrived already) so I have 4 choices with the tractor that i can see:

    a. plow (about $2,500?) on the front of the tractor but remove loader - this leaves the rear pto for a sand spreader
    b. rear mounted blower ($2,300) and back up to blow...yuck...just how miserable is this for a one mile long road/driveway? Only bad when the wind blows?
    c. rear mounted but front facing blower (Erskine)...don't know cost yet but looks like it could be a solution.
    d. frount mounted Erskine ($5,100) powered off rear PTO...expensive but gets great reviews.

    since all of the blower solutions use the rear pto, what could i do to run a sand spreader? i assume that they make a rear pto driven sand spreader but that goes out the window with a snow blower...ideas? JD and NH make front and mid pto blowers...but i don't know of any for the kioti frame...

    Question #3

    Should i get the 72 inch or 84 inch landscape rake...i'm more concerned with tight fit than covering large areas all at once ... anybody see any reason not to buy the 72 inch one? wheels needed???

    any help is appreciated...thanks, John.

  2. #2
    Elite Member Ductape's Avatar
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    Feb 2006
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    4,855
    Location
    Central New Hampshire
    Tractor
    Kubota B3030HSDC

    Default Re: Grapples, remotes and snow blowers...

    John,
    Yes, using a diverter from your curl function will cause you to lose the curl when using the grapple. However, with a few hours of practice, switching back and forth will be seamless. Like raising the bucket and curling at the same time going into a pile..... soon enough it will be a natuural reaction and you won't even have to think about it. This is the way i would go. Though you may want to think about an extra set of remotes in the rear anyway. you will always find a use for more of them, such as a hydraulically angled york rake or grader blade, dump wagon, etc.

    As far as your snow removal...... putting a plow on the front would be a quick way to go. I personally like the blade mounted to the loader, so you can push piles up nice and high (better for snow forts !). I have a rear mounted blower myself. I'd say it'll be a pain looking over your shoulder for a mile, but on the other hand.... you can leave the loader on for pushing piles back or whatever. I too have heard great things about the Erskines.... but they are big cake, and you are correct.... they use up both ends of your tractor.

    There are people who use fertilizer spreaders (pto type) to spread sand or chemicals, but obviously this wouldn't work for you if something else is already using the PTO, such as a snowblower. There are plenty of 12v spreaders out there though.... such as the ones designed to mount to the rear of an ATV. A simple switch and two prong plug so it can be unplugged when you remove it from the tractor. With a little creativity this could be used WITH another implement using the PTO.

    I'd say get the 72" rake if space is a concern. Just make sure that it is wide enough to cover your tracks when it is angled. Get the guage wheels..... they will make your life easier !

  3. #3
    Elite Member
    Rest in Peace

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    3,741
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    New Hampshire
    Tractor
    Kubota B2710, IH TD6-62 dozer with Drott 4n1 bucket loader

    Default Re: Grapples, remotes and snow blowers...

    Quote Originally Posted by buyerjohn
    Question #1

    I like the Millonzi grapple and have a price of $1,749 for the 66 LD version. I don't know if that includes the diverter valve or not ( I should but I don't). Here's what I don't understand...when you add a second set of hydraulic outlets at the rear (called remotes??), you need to run hoses to the front to control the grapple open and close function...so far so good, but what do you use in your right hand to actually tell the grapple to open and close? a trigger on the loader stick?
    In the case of remotes you would use the fender mounted lever that controls the remotes. This means taking your hand off of the joystick to operate the grapple.

    Quote Originally Posted by buyerjohn
    Also, if you put a diverter valve in to control the grapple from the loader hydraulics - this disables the bucket curl function while the grapple opens and closes, correct?
    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by buyerjohn
    So there seem to be 3 options to control the grapple:

    a. unplug the hoe and run the new lines from the rear to the grapple. Control the grapple open/close via some sort of control by the loader joystick (cost is about $475)
    b. add a second set of remotes at the rear and run the new lines to the grapple and control the grapple somehow at the loader joystick (cost is about $900)
    c. add a diverter valve on the loader cross beam and alternate loader curl/grapple open/close (cost is $675)

    I think that's right anyway! Which of the 3 options would you prefer and why??? Do these costs seem reasonable? Would they change substantially if i did it myself (i'm not interested in saving 30%!)...
    Does your backhoe run off of the first set of remotes or from a power beyond kit? It does make a difference in your grapple connection options. I am going to assume your backhoe is connected using a power beyond kit. This means you have NO rear remotes that are operated via a fender mounted lever.

    This being the case, I would opt for either a diverter mounted on the loader arm (cost around $250-$300 installed by you) or an electric/hydraulic solenoid valve connected in series with the loader valve (like the WR Long setup. Cost is $550 installed by you). Both of these options would control the grapple using a joystick mounted switch. There have been several recent posts describing this. The difference between the diverter and e/h valve is that the e/h valve will allow you to use both loader functions while operating the grapple.
    My friends call me Mad, everyone else thinks I'm mad.

  4. #4
    LarryRB
    Guest

    Default Re: Grapples, remotes and snow blowers...

    On my tractor type, I can't have any snowblowers, However, We have a 1600 ft gravel/rock driveway,. Being that you will have a third valve on the FEL anyway, I have a Diamond 7 1/2 power angle plow,, Costs in No. Brookfield MA is around 1800 for the plow with skid steer quick attach. The plow does an awesome job and is easy to stack out of the way...

  5. #5
    Gold Member bearhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    489
    Location
    Milton, New Hampshire
    Tractor
    Kioti CK20HST

    Default Re: Grapples, remotes and snow blowers...

    I would swap the canopy for a sims cab. Sims Cab Depot but be sure it fits with the woods loader.

    A mile driveway forward or back in the winter would not be fun. Might as well just get a used plow truck. Then use the tractor to push the banks back.

    Good luck

    Jim

  6. #6
    Silver Member
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    Berkshires, MA
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    DK45s with cab

    Default Re: Grapples, remotes and snow blowers...

    I'm still confused...Ductape said:

    <<<you may want to think about an extra set of remotes in the rear anyway. you will always find a use for more of them, such as a hydraulically angled york rake or grader blade, dump wagon, etc.>>>

    I'm assuming that the ck30 comes with no remotes in the rear, correct? If so, the backhoe is plumbed with either a power beyond kit or plugged into the first set of remotes that would be newly installed. If there is a set of remotes installed, then when the backhoe is removed, aren't those remotes available for another 3 point implement? Why would i need "an extra set of remotes" as ductape says? and not just use the set freed up by the backhoe?

    Do all rear remotes have controls for them installed elsewhere? ie. on the fender? If so, how does the backhoe use those rear remotes yet still control the backhoe hydraulics with the backhoe controls? Do the "remote controls" simply remain as part of the circuit but are unused? That would seem a bit dangerous to me if they are accidentally moved while an operator is on the backhow .. i'm probably missing something though!

    It sounds like the diverter valve is the best solution for the grapple ...this would also work well if i wanted to use a plow on the tractor. The solenoid valve option would be the best way to implement. I don't want to take my hand off the joystick to operate the grapple.

    So really the only question left is whether i need a set of rear remotes and it sounds like i do..if the remotes are not factory standard, what does the control for them look like on the fender? Do you say remotes (plural) because there would be 2 lines to plug into meaning that you could not only angle a rear blade but also tilt it forward and back? Also, most of the rakes and blades i've seen (woods) appear to be manually adjusted...do you just remove pins and let the remote hydraulics hold the blade in position? or do i need to look at another manufacturer?

    It really seems that a tractor isn't really the best (meaning most comfortable and/or flexible) way to move snow and that an old truck with a plow may be a better solution.

    good tip on sims, i'll look at them...

  7. #7
    Elite Member Dmace's Avatar
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    Oct 2005
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    3,838
    Location
    Wakefield, NH
    Tractor
    Kioti CK20 HST

    Default Re: Grapples, remotes and snow blowers...

    I have a CK20 with the Sims cab and a rear mount 60" snowblower. My driveway is about 400' long and a hill with large areas in front and side of my house. Looking back is not a problem at all. I can sit sideways in the seat comfortably which leads to barely turning your head to look back. Having the position control 3pt hitch makes for great small adjustments on the go if you are digging too deep or not deep enough. A plowed driveway looks messy and leaves huge banks all around. MY driveway always as a very nice straight cut edge and the snow is spread throughout the yard. This also makes for faster melting and water dispursement in the spring. Less mud and flooding. The cab with heat is great. In below 0 temps, I can be out in the tractor in just a sweatshirt and stay plenty warm. The window wipers come in handy, both front and rear.

    One big factor is gas. At $3/ gallon you will waste a good $10-$15 or more of gas each storm plowing with a truck. $15 of diesel gets me through 4-5 large storms at about 2-2.5 hours each storm.

    As far as sanding, I am going to take an electric hopper-type sander (as shown) and strap it to the front end loader that will be plugged into a 12v power supply from the tractor. This way I can sand as I snowblow. EarthWay ATV 12 Volt Broadcast Spreader — 100&#45;Lb. Capacity, Model&#35; M30 | Salt Spreaders | Northern Tool + Equipment


    Good Luck with the tractor purchase.
    Derek
    Kioti CK20HST
    KL120 FEL // KB2365 BH // 60" JRW 3ph snowblower // 48" HD Boxblade
    Sims-Cab Depot heated cab
    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondPilot
    Now it's time for Ford and GM to step up

  8. #8
    Banned shvl73's Avatar
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    NH
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    Mahindra 2810HST

    Default Re: Grapples, remotes and snow blowers...

    The problem with an old plow truck is, something is always breaking. Rust is a concern on some thing that sets most of the year. If you plow with a newer truck that would mean increased wear on an expensive vehicle. I think a tractor is great for moving snow. On mine, I've got a 3pt mounted blower, works great. I don't need a cab, my drive way is only 600' but, every year I blow a path around our field to walk the dogs, many times the length of the driveway. The big difference is, I can choose when to do the field, the driveway is a priority. If I truly had over 5000' feet of driveway, I might feel differently.

  9. #9
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
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    Location
    Prudence Island, RI
    Tractor
    2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH

    Default Re: Grapples, remotes and snow blowers...

    [quote=buyerjohn]I'm still confused...Ductape said:

    I'm assuming that the ck30 comes with no remotes in the rear, correct?
    quote]

    Correct.

    [quote=buyerjohn]If so, the backhoe is plumbed with either a power beyond kit or plugged into the first set of remotes that would be newly installed. If there is a set of remotes installed, then when the backhoe is removed, aren't those remotes available for another 3 point implement?
    quote]

    Yes

    [quote=buyerjohn]Why would i need "an extra set of remotes" as ductape says? and not just use the set freed up by the backhoe?
    quote]

    You don't unless you want to use the grapple while the backhoe is still active or just don't want to switch the lines over.

    [quote=buyerjohn]Do all rear remotes have controls for them installed elsewhere? ie. on the fender? If so, how does the backhoe use those rear remotes yet still control the backhoe hydraulics with the backhoe controls?
    quote]

    Yes, the rear remote lever on the fender is set in the forward position and left there when using the backhoe. When using the grapple you would leave the rear remote lever in the neutral position and move it either forward (open) or back (close) for the grapple. If you reverse the lines then the functions are reversed.

    [quote=buyerjohn]It sounds like the diverter valve is the best solution for the grapple ...
    quote]

    Not if you already have rear remotes. Cost of plumbing the hydraulic lines to from rear remotes to the grapple are trivial compared with adding a diverter valve.

    [quote=buyerjohn]So really the only question left is whether i need a set of rear remotes and it sounds like i do..if the remotes are not factory standard, what does the control for them look like on the fender?
    quote]

    Yellow lever on right fender inside of the position control lever. Easily reachable just by moving your hand off the FEL joystick and sliding to the right about 8 inches. No need to look after the first hour or so of use, you get quite used to it.

    It sounds to me like you will need one set of rear remotes anyway so why don't you just try that option for controlling the grapple. You can always add a diverter valve but I don't think you'll find it necessary for grapple use. Grapples are generally open or closed. Not much finesse about that part of the operation so a simple lever should be fine. That is the set up I have and I am glad I did not waste time and money and hassle on a diverter valve.

  10. #10
    Silver Member
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    Berkshires, MA
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    DK45s with cab

    Default Re: Grapples, remotes and snow blowers...

    thanks island for all the answers but i'm not quite there yet...

    my understanding is that a "set" of remotes means 2 connection outlets for the backhoe hydraulics, right? What is the difference between "remotes" and a "power beyond" kit?

    Also, the two sets of hydro lines that control backhoe extension and bucket curl take either 2 controls (bidirectional) to control those lines or one control that can move in four directions (like the loader joystick), correct?

    If the above is true, and you add a set of remotes to control a backhoe, why is there only one bi-directional lever on the fender when there are two lines to control? Is one line just left "uncontrolled"?

    Why wouldn't there be two controls or at least one control that moves in four directions to control both hydraulic lines? Also, if there is only one bi-directional control on the fender, how would you control a rear blade with both tilt and left/right movement? See my prior question on which blades operate that way, do woods RB-72 for example?

    Given all that, I agree that a fender bi-directional control is probably fine for the grapple open/close function.

    thanks, John.

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