KL130 on a CK30 Problem

[tierbb]

I have a early version of the KL130 . The mid connector on the boom has a major opening to be able to get to the hoses going through the connector.
The other day after approx. 100 hours of normal use of the loader I noticed the mid connector on the boom was cracking in 4 spots under the hose cover and extending out (1 inch plus). If I continued use it would certainly crack completely.

Needless to say I'm greatly dissappointed in the product and the safety issue it raises for me and the rest of the tractor if it breaks completely in use.

I contacted my dealer and Kioti directly. Looking at the Kioti update bulletins they have announced an engineering change for the 120 but held up on the original KL130 in February this year. The newer versions have a solid cross piece and a cover over the hoses which strengthens the unit and the weakness/cracking does not occur.

Kioti's proposed solution at this time is a set of parts to be added to the crossbar. Needless to say if the base unit is cracked and it will continue to crack no matter how we try to supplement it. My advisors say the only good correction appears to be a new boom with the engineering changes Kioti is using on the new model.

From my emails with Dan Carter of Kioti I understand others have had this problem and would be interested in the feelings on both Kioti support and whether Kioti's parts solution works. If it's a "Rube Goldberg" approach I plan to take the issue further with Kioti. In fact if the problem is common we have the possibilty of a group effort.

I understand Kioti is going through some change in management and some growing pains but I think this type of thing greatly affects the machines reputation and needs immediate attention of the new management. From my experience so far, I am not convinced this is happening.

I'd like to hear from others who had/have this problem (Take a minute and go look at the loader around the hose cover) and let me know what they feel about:
1- the problem
2- What you did about it
3- Kioti support and resolution
4- Did Kioti's solution work
5- Interest in going further

My dealer has been very helpful in trying to get the problem resolved and indicates they will fix it to maintain their repution if the Kioti proposal is unacceptable. In my opinion, Kioti released an inferior product, admits a problem exists but hasn't officially resolved it with an engineering change/modification, and has modified the newer version. Therefore it is their problem to fix it.

Right now, I'm sitting here in the middle of a dirt project with piles all over my yard and no machine to work with until this is resolved.

I'd be interested in any comments.

Bill Tierney

 

[Highbeam]

Not a new problem. Click on my username, view public profile, and then select threads started by me. The title is something like "my letter to Kioti" with well over 17,000 views and page after page of input. Kioti has changed the loader design which is great for the folks that buy new tractors but the owners of the original loader are in a much more difficult situation.

Or cut and paste this.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/79892-my-letter-kioti-loader-rerepair.html

Be very very careful about a dealer repair to your loader. Once he welds on the loader, the Kioti solution may not fit up. Also, the welded on material has the potential to look like the fires of hades.

 

[450EXC]

"Right now I'm sitting here in the middle of a dirt project with piles all over my yard and no machine to work with untill this is resolved."

Mine is cracked and I have been working it as normal with no problems.

You might be able to finish up your project at least if you are really woried about it. Maybe keep a close eye on it.

 

[tierbb]

First I wanted to say thanks to Tractor by net for providing this forum for us all to share experiences/knowledge both good and bad. Also thanks to the threads originators and responders.

Back to the thread. Just thought I'd Bring you up to date.

I guess I'm number 13 on the cracked list. I have 4. I also know of two more tractors but they haven't gotten to it as they are in business and a little busy trying to generate income.

I stopped using the loader as my neighbor who has been in the excavating business 35+ years said maybe you can use it BUT he has no idea what will happen when it breaks through. It could hurt me or the tractor. Two things I don't want.

When I first noticed the cracks I notified the dealer and Kioti. This was on 7/18/07 Here's the results so far:

1- The dealer showed me all his bulletins and the latest he had was a hold on the KL130 as of Feb. I assume of this year but I'm not sure.

2- Kioti ,with some major probing, sent the KL120 fix to the dealer to use on my tractor. They claimed they called to let me know but neither my wife nor the answering machine heard the call.

3- The dealer has offered to fix the problem no matter whatever. He acts in good faith and stands behind his sales. Long time between men of integrity.

4- The Kioti fix itself looks to be 2 to 3 times thicker plate than the original. It looks also like they expect you to bolt it on but I didn't see any instructions with it.

5- The solution we came to is :
- Remove the hoses and leave them out of the support beam completly.
Make a cover plate after all is done
- Repair the original by welding
- Install the fix, cover all holes and weld in position with some gussets for strength

I'm not a welder so I'm putting my faith in the dealer to do it correctly as shown in his other works. But this is the general idea.If it doesn't work, I'll go back at Kioti.

6- After reading all the thread comments and other discussions, I think the real answer should be that Kioti replaces the cracked boom with the newer version.

As an exercise, I asked the dealer the cost of a new boom. He guessed $600 which would make any discussion unnecessary. But , upon checking the true cost would be $1300 versus $2400 for a total boom package with bucket etc.

If we take the $1300 and assume Kioti has a 30% markup in the number the cost is approx. $900. Kioti and customer could negotiate between a zero cost to half of the cost. The dealer replaces the current with a clean installation. Kioti strengthens it's reputation (as a viable entry in the field), the dealer protects his customer for future sales and the customer gets the product and support he thought he bought. Am I missing somethng?

I agree with many responders this has gone on too long and is getting repetitive. Kioti must get off the dime and be an active responder to the marketplace or remove itself.

Bill Tierney

 

[Highbeam]

Looks like you have a level head Bill. You and I have similar trains of thought on this one. I just had it a year or two earlier.

This part:

"5- The solution we came to is :
- Remove the hoses and leave them out of the support beam completly.
Make a cover plate after all is done
- Repair the original by welding
- Install the fix, cover all holes and weld in position with some gussets for strength

I'm not a welder so I'm putting my faith in the dealer to do it correctly as shown in his other works. But this is the general idea.If it doesn't work, I'll go back at Kioti."

... is a problem. This is where my situation went downhill. Once you or your dealer start hacking on the loader then Kioti's bolt on fix won't work, Kioti hasn't authorized (have they?)said repair and so your warranty would be void, if the job looks like junk or if for any reason you are unhappy with it then you have nobody but the dealer to go after and these types of repairs are not easily reversable. The welder being used is not an engineer, he won't know how much flex is supposed to be provided at the crossbeam, he may just start scabbing on chunks. My dealer's chosen welder looked to be 4 year old with an arc welder.

Don't do #5. Just use the heck out of the loader and keep after Kioti for an official fix, I would prefer #6. Be sure they don't "wait out" your warranty. Note that nobody's loader has collapsed on them yet. Also note that ANY crack in a structural member such as this is a FAILURE of the part. It doesn't have to collapse to have failed.

I noticed that when you were buying the tractor you wrote:

"New to buying a tractor. Have great technical advice but not familar with pricing. Looking @ ck30 with bucket (my dealer now seems to have woods on all models) and a rear snowblower to start."

Bummer, this might be why he had Woods loaders.

 

[HODAK]

tierbb, check your messages..........

 

[twigpig]

Bill
After reading all of the posts that professed Kioti would do the right thing and come up with an equitable solution I bought my used CK30 with a cracked LA130. I should have checked out the integrity of the selling dealer first. The dealer has washed his hands of the issue. Another dealer may be able to help me out though. I would prefer to buy the redesigned loader arms at a discount or manufacturer cost and install it myself. No trailer for transport. Now if I had bought the tractor new I would be completely ?ahhh? unhappy. If I were buying new I would have definitely went with the other orange. All brands have issues. What is telling is how the company responds to them. I can't help but wonder how many sales Kioti has lost from the cracked loaders and the dismal response. Granted Kioti sales appear to be doing ok but I can't help thinking they would have done much better without the tarnished quality issues and subsequent stonewalling. I wonder if they are doing like the Chevy bean counters did with the truck gas tank placement in the 70s? Will it cost more to replace the loader arms or keep dealing with the fallout of a poor product? Look where Chevy is now. What was it about a wise man learning from others mistakes? They didn't have the internet back in the rupturing gas tank days. At least the general public didn't. I don't think Al Gore invented it yet. I know cheap shot. I actually like Al Gore. Don't hold it against me. And for the people that say they are tired of the whining about the cracked loader arms. I have a solution for you. Don't read these posts. Let the flames begin.

 

[HODAK]

Bill
After reading all of the posts that professed Kioti would do the right thing and come up with an equitable solution I bought my used CK30 with a cracked LA130. I should have checked out the integrity of the selling dealer first. The dealer has washed his hands of the issue. Another dealer may be able to help me out though. I would prefer to buy the redesigned loader arms at a discount or manufacturer cost and install it myself. No trailer for transport. Now if I had bought the tractor new I would be completely ?ahhh? unhappy. If I were buying new I would have definitely went with the other orange. All brands have issues. What is telling is how the company responds to them. I can't help but wonder how many sales Kioti has lost from the cracked loaders and the dismal response. Granted Kioti sales appear to be doing ok but I can't help thinking they would have done much better without the tarnished quality issues and subsequent stonewalling. I wonder if they are doing like the Chevy bean counters did with the truck gas tank placement in the 70s? Will it cost more to replace the loader arms or keep dealing with the fallout of a poor product? Look where Chevy is now. What was it about a wise man learning from others mistakes? They didn't have the internet back in the rupturing gas tank days. At least the general public didn't. I don't think Al Gore invented it yet. I know cheap shot. I actually like Al Gore. Don't hold it against me. And for the people that say they are tired of the whining about the cracked loader arms. I have a solution for you. Don't read these posts. Let the flames begin.

Well said. I like the idea of the discounted loader arms. The updated loader design is their fix for new models. Older tractor ..........too bad I guess. I think most companies look toward the future and really aren't that concerned until something bad (and I hope nothing does) happens. Resale is probably out of the question with cracks or a "fix kit". What a shame - I like the tractor and the dealer, but that's where I say, "lesson learned".

 

[Steverino]

I too agree with Twigpig and Hodak, I like the idea of the discounted loader arms. Call it an upgrade if you like, or any Madison Avenue marketing scheme to avoid admitting a defective product and at least allow those who are convinced that the suggest repair won't work to move albeit at an additional expense. At least they will be able to use the loader without fear.

I still plan to make my own repairs as time allots, which it so far it hasn't but I continue to use the loader as needed, though minimally and I have not noticed the cracks growing to any extent over when I first noticed them.

 

[coasterez]

I would not be a happy camper if Kioti's "solution" was to charge me for anything. If the solution is new loader arms, then it's Kioti's cost to bear, not mine.

This has been going on now for over a year. I think it's about time that Kioti did something. Thus far, the excuse has been that there are different versions of the loader out there that will require different "kits", and Kioti is still trying to figure out who has what version. It's been long enough. If they don't know by now, they never will. It's time for a fix @#$%^&)!!!!