Kioti backhoe 2376 leaks-defective design

[jim_n_nh]

The oring and the valve were replaced previously. A four hose kit was installed and the entire valve body assembly was replaced $$$$$$$ as well as having the overall pressure reduced. I stopped by last weekend and they found some more work todo. The previous owner apparently only greased the backhoe prior to selling it to me. Two bushings are being replaced $$$$$.

Upper Valley has been upfront with me. I just don't know what to believe. With the hose kit I think is like a retro fit, Kioti must have had a reason to have the kit so would Orings work. The spooling valve assembly is much more expensive than the $297 assembly I found on Ebay.

what do you think??

Jim

[JoelD]

My thoughts are as follows. I would be shocked if the operating pressure had anything to do with the problem. should work simply, approximately 10GPM of oil flowing through the valve body, that should not cause any issues. You pull the lever, the piston is engaged and under load the pressure will build, in my opinion anything under 3000psi should not cause a leak in any valve body. If, as pressure builds, there is a leak in the valve body then it must be o-ring, or something of the sort. If the o-ring leaks then replacing should fix, if not then valve body faulty. Replacing offending section of valve body should fix once and for all. I don't understand the third hose routine. I had a scratch build hoe, running 3000psi relief setting for years with no issues. Pressure line going into valve body and return line coming out of valve body returning to the tank. No "other hoses" anywhere. I think either the valve body and o-rings are good or bad. If bad, Kioti should replace the offending section, if still faulty they should replace what they replaced under warranty of replaced part. If that does not work, ask for some money towards a third party valve body.

[jim_n_nh]

I got the phonecall this afternoon. It is coming back... Spent a month getting the leaks repaired and the bushings replaced. It ain't cheap, I have almost what a new machine would cost in this now. And YES, the previous owner will be sent a copy of the repair bill. A lot more will be said at a later time.

The original owner lied, I did ask about issues such as this. Kioti has some ownership as well. If there was not a problem, why have an updated hose kit?

Jim

[JoelD]

Hope the machine runs problem free for a long time. Will be interesting to see what the fix was.

[jim_n_nh]

I thought I would give an update but first, please give me a little tolerance for typos, I have been up for over 30 hours.

I want to thank Upper Valley Tractor for offering help on fixing my tractor. I have about 1 hour on the backhoe and it seems to have more nuts... It used to droop and it would not lift the rear of the machine up enough to clear the tires. I do not operate it that way but I tried it and it lifted. This is after they turned the pump down. I have put about 4 hours on the tractor but I am digging out a bank on the north side of my house and bringing it 200 feet to the south side of my house so alot of driving time is included here.

The previous owner apparently only greased it prior to me buying it so I do not hold Kioti accountable for that but I do wonder why a retrfit kit was made for the tractor if "" there were no issues"".

Jim

[crabjoe]

Originally Posted by jim_n_nh

The previous owner apparently only greased it prior to me buying it so I do not hold Kioti accountable for that but I do wonder why a retrfit kit was made for the tractor if "" there were no issues"".

Sometimes parts work as originally intended and other times it doesn't. They may have come out with a retro kit because they were seeing repairs numbers above a given number they expected.

It's not just Kioti that does this. Kubota has a slightly different design on some of their plastic decks. Kubota has fixed some for free, but tell some of thier customers it's cosmetic. I don't feel it's right, but that's just the way OEMs work.

Look at Ford. They had a defective cruise control setup that caused fires. They fought it tooth and nail, but lost in court. Look at my Panasonic LCD TV. They used a bum projector light in them, but their paying for it now. They lost a lawsuit.

I just hope they got your Hoe fixed and good now.

[jim_n_nh]

I just had a great custumer experience that Kioti could learn from. 14 months ago I got glasses from Lenscrofters, last month the lenses started to delaminate, I went in today and they said "yes, there is a problem, have a $50 of certificate for your trouble" and this was within 2 minutes. Lenscrafter and CCM really know how to treat a customer and get repeat business. It is really nice when a company stands behind their product.

[KiotiDave]

Hi,
This thread is getting to be worn out.
Let's put things into perspective here.
1. Jim bought a used piece of equipment private sale.
2. Jim bought a backhoe that was 1-1/2 years out of factory warranty.
3. Jim comes on tractorbynet complaining of a defect in design from Kioti
4. Jim says others have had the same problems(3-4) hardley an epidemic.
5. Jim, maybe should have checked out the machine before buying from
private sale. No dealer to help out.
6. Jim gets his tractor to a dealer and gets the tractor registered into his
name. Until now Kioti didn't even know who he is.
7. Jim talks to Kioti, they call me. I tell them what is wrong, Kioti comes up
with a plan. WHICH THEY HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO DO WITH THE EQUIP
MENT 19MONTHS OUT OF WARRANTY.
8. KIOTI REPLACED THE HOSES ON THE LOADER, SENT A NEW BACKHOE
VALVE ASSEMBLY AT 1/3 DEALER COST AND HAD US DO A FEW OTHER
CHANGES ON THE MACHINE. IN A NUT SHELL WE DID ABOUT $3000
WORTH OF WORK AND TRANSPORTING AND THE CUSTOMER PAID ABOUT
$1200.
9. I THINK KIOTI HAS MORE THAN STEPPED UP TO THE PLATE ON THIS
MATTER!!!!!!!!!
10. Jim also had us change 2 sets of bad bushings and pins on his boom and
dipperstick. Another indication that he bought an abused piece of
equipment.
11. NOW JIM IS STILL BASHING THE KIOTI NAME WHEN THEY CAME IN TO
HELP A CUSTOMER WHO REALLY HAD NO CLAIM.
THIS MACHINE WAS ABUSED AND NOT MAINTAINED, THIS HAS NOTHING
TO DO WITH WARRANTY!!!!
Now, this opinion may not be the most popular with consumers, but you have to be realistic when you make a mistake and purchase something that is in worst shape than it appeared. BUYER BEWARE.
I may lose a little face in this matter, but the record had to be set straight.
I will bend over backwards to help a customer who appreciates the fact they are getting help when it is not warranted. It seems you will always have 1 or 2 you cannot satisfy no matter what you do.
I realize that Jim had nice things to say about us, but KIOTI is the one who really steped up here.
Thanks for listening.
KiotiDave

[jim_n_nh]

If they didn't have a problem they wouldn't have made a kit for it. The tractor had three dealer repaired issues in less than 150hrs, two under warranty. Dealers saying they "worked" for Kioti told me this would be repaired under warranty.
I was told the tractor was under my name after dealing with them and I was told Kioti would be calling me. When I called a Mr Carter at Kioti he wasn't the nicest individual on the phone I have ever dealt with.

Deal with CCM or Lenscrafters or LL Bean to get a good example of how a company respects people that buy their product.

And when Kioti says they will call me I sort of expected they would. You told me they monitor this forum, you can give them my number or my email address.

I don't hold Kioti responsible for the bushings but remeber this was serviced twice at the dealer then once onsight. Orings were replaced, spooler valve replaced and the hydro pump was replaced.

Not trying to get into a pissing contest because I am very greatful to you helping me out. I haven't put three hours on the backhoe because the ccm rototiller is on it now.

[jim_n_nh]

I want to add one thing, while very satisfied with the service at Upper Valley and very impressed that someone would volunteer to get into the mess of this I have to add the following...

Upper Valley said that they had done this repair before on a 3054 wit a 2376 backhoe. And when I asked for the old spooling valve assembly I was told that it had to be sent back to Kioti because Kioti was going to send it back to the vender for credit. This implies that it was defective. I was going to bring it to USA Hydralics in Manchester NH for them to troubleshoot. If this was a car I would be entitled to the used parts.

Let me back track further. When I contacted Rick Wallace about how to disconnect the backhoe and make my loader function he was great. When he researched the history on this tractor his comment was "If this was in my shop this would be warrenty".

I feel like people especially Kioti is painting me as someone trying to get something for nothing. I am not, I just want them to recognize that this is a problem. Dealers from California and Florida as well as local PM'ed me saying how they have fixed this problem with the 4 hose kit. They would not have made the kit unless there was an issue.

What is the big bad wolf (KIOTI) afraid of. You make a great product, just admit the backhoe was an issue or why would the spooling valve be upgraded from a 2376 assembly to a 2476 assembly.

The retail price for the valve I was quoted was $2100 dollars. How much better was that then the Ebay one I found for $297??

The previous owner most likely dumped it on me because the previous three time it was in the shop it did not get fixed. It is an ongoing problem that does not have an issue with lack of grease except for the bushing($258 which I think is fair).



Come on Kioti, don't hide talk to me...........