Kioti backhoe 2376 leaks-defective design

[Dodgeram]

Joel,
Outstanding response.
After 51 years on this earth, if there's one thing that has sunk in, when I buy something used and out of warranty, any repair cost are mine and mine alone.

[jim_n_nh]

If it had been patched twice in the recent pass (spooling valve replaced, Orings in spooling valve replaced, Hydro pump replaced in under 147 hours)
would it be your problem? If the company came out with a retrofit four hose replacement to prevent the Orings being blown out in your backhoe would it be the owner's problem or something that the manufacturer should own up to?

Something tells me you would be on the other side of this discussion. One other thing. If you spent all the money to have the backhoe repaired, shouldn't you be allowed to see the defective parts? Shouldn't you be allowed to have the parts reviewed by a third party?

Attorney general says so!!

[jim_n_nh]

Doing a little Googling on the net, found this, on tractorbynet

Re: HELP!! Kioti Backhoe 2375 broken

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I have had to replace EVERY o-ring on the valve because of leaks with 40 hours. That shouldn't be. The damage shown in this failure is quite bizzare

[JoelD]

Jim, tough to argue with your rationale, the problem is you were not the original owner. Saving $10+K on purchase price of new does not come without risk.

I am still stuck on the same initial question with regards to the valve body, maybe there is someone out there who can answer, why not as simple as replacing o-rings, like others have (I think $15 or so). Or replacing the defective spool that leaked?

Hydraulics is so simple in my book, no question the initial pumps on these machines had problems and many replaced.

But the valve body I don't understand.

The pump puts out max of what, no more than 3000 psi I would think. Therefore, valve body on hoe should be straight forward.

Oil comes in at 10 GPM or so, does not build pressure until you load up cyl. If the effected valve leaks, you repack.

I am so hung up on this, maybe there is someone out there who can help me understand.

I'm at 175 hours on my machine with no issues. Rick checked warranty record and no issues noted, actually no warranty work whatsoever.

Another thing to keep in mind Jim, you hammer Kioti on a Kioti forum made up of Kioti enthusiasts, tough to get sympathy.

Good luck Jim, if you are a dad, happy father's day.

Joel

[Cyberroc]

Jim, I wish you the best with both the tractor and other issues you are dealing with

It's never easy and very understandable that you are stressed by this, however from what I have read it seems the direction that your venting your anger is bit off point.

To start, I think you did an incredible job of researching the previous warranty work; unfortunately this may have been more beneficial if it was performed prior to your purchase. I am also wondering if you ran the Tractor and BH through its paces prior to purchase. I would think the issue may have reared if so and prompted the research ahead of time, either way it should serve as a good lesson to all of us.

Maybe it's just me, however I picked up on a pattern and the whole time I was reading the one thought in the back of my mind was 'how badly was this tractor treated by the previous owner?' Repeat valve work, no prior (or at least no steady) maintenance or greasing along with how you described the extra work that it needed, all leads me to suspect heavy abuse and neglect. That is where I am betting more of the 'blame' lies than you might suspect.

Again, I wish you the best; however I do feel you owe the dealers that went out of their way to help you, at their cost of time and $$, a lot more respect than you have been giving them.

The dealers built bridges out of their time and money to help you and you burned them down after crossing. IMO

[lunbrjck]

I have to side with jim on this problem. I have read all the posts and at first I thought he was over reacting but then thought about it for a while. I know it was a used machine but the problems started with the original owner, under warranty and was repaired a couple times. Just because the tractor has changed hands doesn't make it a different tractor or a different problem. They should have fixed the problem the first couple times and he wouldn't be having this problem. If he had bought the tractor from the original owner, out or warranty, and then the problem started he wouldn't have an argument but the problem was an ongoing problem from when the tractor was new and was never fixed or fixed right. It should be fixed and covered under the warrenty since it was never fixed right the times it was back to the shop. I don't blame the dealers at all it is Kioti that should stand good for the problem. Doesn't matter if it is one tractor or a couple thousand tractors the parts were bad and Kioti should stand behind their products. I love my CK and have had no problems with it at all but if I do I hope I get better service from Kioti than jim has.
Just my 2 cents worth.

[TBDonnelly]

Originally Posted by lunbrjck

If he had bought the tractor from the original owner, out or warranty, and then the problem started he wouldn't have an argument but the problem was an ongoing problem from when the tractor was new and was never fixed or fixed right. It should be fixed and covered under the warrenty since it was never fixed right the times it was back to the shop. Just my 2 cents worth.

The backhoe was 19 months out of warranty. How would we know if the problem was fixed right-or-not during the warranty period since there was an additional 19 months of use administered to the backhoe after the one year warranty period expired. (As I understand it.)

Don

[Cyberroc]

Originally Posted by lunbrjck

I have to side with jim on this problem...

It's your right.

I wish Jim got a better deal and I really hope it works out for him. I think the previous owner took him for a ride on the wrong side if he lied like Jim said, which I am willing to take Jim at his word for, I would have directed my action at the seller, which still is my point.

I do not think anyone is debating that the (out of warranty) part needed repair, however I would be happy to debate who should pay for the repair. To say 'just because the tractor has changed hands doesn't make it a different tractor or a different problem.' is not 100% true as it actually it does make it a different problem from a legal point of view.

From what I understand of the 'lemon law' in NH, even if the law applied to tractors, the requirements can't be met due to not being the origional owner and prior neglect by the previous owner.

Either way I don't think it changes the fact that Jim was (for a lack of a better word) shafted by the previous owner and had to pay to fix a used and out of warranty Tractor.

We should all remember that Jim not only received preferential treatment from dealers he did not purchase from, but also received the part at 1/3 cost from the manufacture, which was an offer he agreed to. It may not be easy to see right now, but Jim faired better than most would have.

Jim, best of luck and you still may want to PM some apologies to the dealers for calling them out in your posts with bad taste, especially when they were only trying to help. If it were me, I would want to keep them on my good side. I only restate this for your benefit, when you were posting in anger it may not have been your intension to slam those who helped you, but it sure read that way.

Again - Best of Luck with everything. No one likes to see a good tractor down.

[jim_n_nh]

For the dealers a partial thanks. As of today I have the proof and it is out of my hands. The proof came from kioti's website under the dealer port.

It is on the Kioti corporate letter head. If I can find this problem a dealer should be able to. This date back to when the tractor was under warranty and was being serviced.

I will be the one getting the apologies. Please allow me 3-4 weeks to process through the NH Attorney Generals office.

This information should be enough for the dealers and Kioti to know what I have found. If you own a lk3054xs with a 2376 backhoe CALL YOUR DEALER!!!

Of to my night job.

Jim

[Dodgeram]

I, for one, certainly hope you get what's coming to you after you pitted/played the great dealers on here against each other.
Great job
Tom