Oil & Fuel Pics of HST Oil Coolers on CK35's and Above Please?

[rcrcomputing]

Hodak, do you realize, by fixing it, you are no longer able to stand around and gripe about it like we can?

If you don't mind, how much did it run you?

 

[mrutkaus]

Hodak, is the new cooler the same model as the old one?

Mike

 

[HODAK]

Hodak, do you realize, by fixing it, you are no longer able to stand around and gripe about it like we can?

If you don't mind, how much did it run you?

I always keep up with scheduled maintenance and fix whatever needs fixing. The cooler leaked and needed replacement - not much else to do. The tractor is 5 years old, no warranty. Loader arms handled the same way - replaced with new style - no kit for me, that didn't work out.

I don't know the brand of the cooler removed or the brand used for replacement. I can check when I get home. Right now I'm enjoying a nice cup of tea on the balcony overlooking the Atlantic The cost of the cooler? Check with Amy...

I am not convinced the the rigid lines caused the leak, but hoping for the best as usual!

 

[Coyote machine]

Here's my take on the situation with the leaking oil coolers. From Hodak's excellent third pic of the newly installed cooler it seems to me there is a possible design flaw inherent in the way the cooler is mounted and the way the hyd lines attach to it.
Tractors are vibration machines and anything fixed tightly to another part- ex: hoses to cooler mounted to a frame member that keeps the cooler in place BUT allows the hoses to move ever so slightly over an extended amount of time & vibration- since hyd lines are NOT attached in the same way- MIGHT/COULD/WILL eventually allow the junction of the fixed and movable object to suffer the effects of the vibration of the tractor's engine, etc.

By this I mean: if the cooler had rubber bushings to allow it to 'float' with the hyd lines the vibration would not be there as it seems to be in the current design, where the rigid hyd line metal ends are bolted to the cooler- which CANNOT move, but can transfer the vibration to the joint of the hyd line and the cooler's inlet and outlet fitting points (rigid).

If it were me I'd find a bushing to put between the frame where the cooler mounts and where the bolts attach to the 'frame' member. This is often done with things like radiators, etc. and motors that vibrate, to keep the vibration from over stressing the points where rigid meets flexing part(s).
Consider the case of motor mounts- they always have a rubber dampener to dissipate shock waves.

Its just my opinion- but I bet it would help if not solve the problem of the leaks occurring. Think about it- these coolers don't leak off the factory floor- they leak after use in the field- WHY? Vibration of critical parts- like where the lines connect to the cooler.

Thoughts? Rebuttal? Desire to send cash to my mailbox for the solution Kioti can't seem to come up with?

 

[HODAK]

Here's my take on the situation with the leaking oil coolers. From Hodak's excellent third pic of the newly installed cooler it seems to me there is a possible design flaw inherent in the way the cooler is mounted and the way the hyd lines attach to it.
Tractors are vibration machines and anything fixed tightly to another part- ex: hoses to cooler mounted to a frame member that keeps the cooler in place BUT allows the hoses to move ever so slightly over an extended amount of time & vibration- since hyd lines are NOT attached in the same way- MIGHT/COULD/WILL eventually allow the junction of the fixed and movable object to suffer the effects of the vibration of the tractor's engine, etc.

By this I mean: if the cooler had rubber bushings to allow it to 'float' with the hyd lines the vibration would not be there as it seems to be in the current design, where the rigid hyd line metal ends are bolted to the cooler- which CANNOT move, but can transfer the vibration to the joint of the hyd line and the cooler's inlet and outlet fitting points (rigid).

If it were me I'd find a bushing to put between the frame where the cooler mounts and where the bolts attach to the 'frame' member. This is often done with things like radiators, etc. and motors that vibrate, to keep the vibration from over stressing the points where rigid meets flexing part(s).
Consider the case of motor mounts- they always have a rubber dampener to dissipate shock waves.

Its just my opinion- but I bet it would help if not solve the problem of the leaks occurring. Think about it- these coolers don't leak off the factory floor- they leak after use in the field- WHY? Vibration of critical parts- like where the lines connect to the cooler.

Thoughts? Rebuttal? Desire to send cash to my mailbox for the solution Kioti can't seem to come up with?

Sounds reasonable to me... I like it - couldn't hurt anything.

 

[mrutkaus]

I was almost thinking the same thing although I hadn't thought of rubber mounting the cooler; it would have the same effect as the flex lines and 50cents vs $75, probably.

Asking myself how the vibration could cause leaks at the bottom of the cooler (which i've confirmed), I guess all those little solder (weld?) joints are just so fragile and rapid vibration would break them up after a while. Thinking about it, it is a pretty frantic vibration there.

Of course this doesn't explain why highbeam's 2005 cooler with 800 hrs is still fine. Or why the gentleman above replaced the cooler with flex lines and it still leaked.

Mike

 

[Coyote machine]

QUOTE

Of course this doesn't explain why highbeam's 2005 cooler with 800 hrs is still fine. Or why the gentleman above replaced the cooler with flex lines and it still leaked.

Mike[/QUOTE]

It may be situational: ie. Highbeams' 2005 tractor may be used for different things, use different implements, for instance backhoe or not, etc. Terrain used on, etc. may have varied. And flex lines is going in direction of bushings for flexing but evidently doesn't get the job completed. Adding bushings seems to me to be the next step in actually fixing the isasue; and sometimes the manufacturer would rather keep redesigning over and over to get the most bang for the parts that have to keep being replaced. Once they fix it a source of revenue dries up! I know- I'm a cynic- actually a realist, who tries to see what is motivating the other guy- in this case the manufacturer.

 

[VictorW]

My CK30hst is one of the ones that the rubber hoses didn't help the new cooler. It's leaking after 250 hours. The first one made it 150 hours. I did look at the solid bolted mount and thought about using rubber grommets. I should have done more than just think about it. Considering the cooler is mounted on the thin piece of flat bar it must vibrate a good bit. Couple the five inches or so to the bottom of the cooler and I'll bet the bottom is shaking pretty good. I've hunted for a different cooler with no luck. So as Hodak mentioned, it needs replaced and I'll just get a new one but make the rubber mounting.

 

[mrutkaus]

Got new cooler and flex hoses and installed them. Seems fine after 5 minutes operation ha ha ha!

I removed the air cleaner assembly (two bolts, 12mm I think) and the battery.

There were two "replacement" bottom plate hydraulic connectors in the stuff I received, part "Connection T4125-37161" but they didn't fit anything and I will return them.

I just connected the new flex hose to te original bottom connectors.

BUT THERE'S MORE! I DID, at the suggestion of someone here, put a rubber grommet behind each of the top two mounting screws, and one on the outside before the nut, and tightened them moderately. I was going to enlarge the cooler mounting holes but they were a bit oversize anyway to allow for some movement.

After install I put a bit of GOOP on the nut and threads of the cooler mounting bolts, as there was no locknut and tightness was not enough to keep it on by itself because of the grommets.

Pictures below I hope show this. There is some murmuring about Kioti taking care of all/part of the cost for these replacement parts.

Note no corrosion on battery plate after four years with cheap battery, I use "Battery Mats."

Mike
Winchester VA

 

[VictorW]

Apparently there are two types of bottom connections for the hoses. It must be an early and later design. I needed to use the new connectors when I changed mine out.
The picture of your original cooler looks much worse than my leaking original cooler and my leaking newer one with hoses. I hope the rubber grommets do the trick. I had thought about moving the cooler higher to lengthen the rubber hoses. Even though the supposed fix was the rubber hoses, they are still pretty stiff being that short in length and may still put stress at the cooler connections and shake the little daylights out of it. It would be nice to know if the vibration is from the connected hoses or from the mounting of the cooler. If the later, your cooler should be good for years.