FEL pistons housing hits FEL arm(s)

[Coyote machine]

I'm finding that my KL-351 loader piston's housing are able to reach to the point where they can hit and damage the FEL's arms under where the piston emerges from its housing on both sides of the FEL. Is this something that a stop of some kind is supposed to prevent?
I'm somewhat baffled by this and would like to know how to remedy it or prevent it from happening.

Thanks.

 

[DirtHauler]

I remember Kioti issued a linkage kit that addressed a bucket "roll back" problem with some loaders, wonder if it would solve your concern, check with your dealer.

 

[wallace]

I'm finding that my KL-351 loader piston's housing are able to reach to the point where they can hit and damage the FEL's arms under where the piston emerges from its housing on both sides of the FEL. Is this something that a stop of some kind is supposed to prevent?
I'm somewhat baffled by this and would like to know how to remedy it or prevent it from happening.

Thanks.

Can you post a picture or email me one.
I would check you half moon linkages on the tilt cylinders conecting to the lowe arm.
If they are bent that will allow this to happen.

 

[Coyote machine]

DirtHauler,
Thanks, I'll ask about my loader and any kit that might be applicable.

Rick Wallace,

Yes the 1/2 moon bars are slightly bent on one side. I would like to know how this ends up happening?
Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to add a 'kit' as DirtHauler mentioned?
Is there some defect in design regarding the bucket's stops for curl and dump?
I just don't get why this is happening and what is causing it to begin with.

Thanks for any help... I will try to get some pics of the damage....

 

[MichiganIron]

The only time we have seen these bent is from backdragging the bucket and/or forks toed down. The loader hydraulics will not bend the rotation plates, but the tractive force of the tractor can. If you apply down pressure with the bucket or a set of forks, and backdrag with the bucket or forks rolled forward, you can over-stress the rotation plates. The hydraulic pressure relief will not allow the loader hydraulics to fail the plates, but the tractor is capable of over-stressing the plates under certain dragging or pushing conditions.

Hope this helps.

 

[Coyote machine]

The only time we have seen these bent is from backdragging the bucket and/or forks toed down. By this do you mean with the bucket in the full 'dump' position locked against the stops of the QA mechanism? The loader hydraulics will not bend the rotation plates, but the tractive force of the tractor can. If you apply down pressure with the bucket or a set of forks, and backdrag with the bucket or forks rolled forward, you can over-stress the rotation plates. What do you mean by rotation plates? Do you mean the 1/2 moon metal pieces of which there are two on each fel arm? Can you show a pic or diagram? The hydraulic pressure relief will not allow the loader hydraulics to fail the plates, but the tractor is capable of over-stressing the plates under certain dragging or pushing conditions. What comes first? Does back dragging with the bucket in the almost full dump position, but actually in 'float' position, with the bucket blade scraping the ground do damage; or only when the QA stops are pushed against the fel arm's stop plates? And if this is the case in either of the above mentioned positions then why aren't the stops sufficient to stop the damage from occurring? Wouldn't this be a design flaw? Certainly the bucket and hydraulics can withstand back dragging without turning into Swiss cheese?!

Hope this helps.

Thanks MIE- Is there a kit to retrofit this loader KL-351 as mentioned earlier in this thread, or does that apply to some other loader?
And if no kit what is the fix? Stop backdragging with the bucket? Reinforce the stops on the QA to a beefier metal/ thicker plate?

 

[MichiganIron]

Generally, we have seen the damage from back-dragging or pushing with the bucket or forks close to a full dump position. In this position, the rotation links (half moon shaped plates) are in the worst position for a compressive failure / buckling. Tnis will not happen when backdragging is done in the float postion. When enough downpressure is put on the bucket cutting edge that the front of the tractor is lifted, and backdragging (or pushing), the compressive stresses in the rotation plates is maxed. At this point, we have seen some fail in compression.

It's difficult for us to determine what excatly is being done with the loader when the rotation plates buckle. We can only go by what customers are willing to share with us. We have put hundreds of hours on our demo tractors, and have not had any buckle.

Design flaw? That may be somewhat up to interpretation. There are certain components in any system that are allowed to fail under certain operating conditions. The rotation plates on the KL Loaders may be one of those components. You can immagine the stress put on the loader mounts when the bucket is backdragged or pushed, in a dump position, with enough downpressure to lift the front of the tractor. Having the rotation plates buckle may not be the worst thing that can happen.
The fix is usually relatively simple.

We hope this answers your questions.

 

[wallace]

Thanks MIE- Is there a kit to retrofit this loader KL-351 as mentioned earlier in this thread, or does that apply to some other loader?
And if no kit what is the fix? Stop backdragging with the bucket? Reinforce the stops on the QA to a beefier metal/ thicker plate?

The "kit" is not for any of the SE tractors it was for the DK45 DK50 KL1590 and DK55 KL1595

 

[Coyote machine]

Thanks MIE and Wallace,
{And Rick, thanks for clarifying what tractors the 'kit' fits}.

I have to ask- what is the suggested solution to this problem; since so far no one has posed a solution as much as saying how the problem can/does occur, and that has been helpful in itself. Now I need to know what to do to fix it so it never occurs again.
I get that the 1/2 moon plates can/will bend, but I now understand that it will NOT occur if the bucket is in float position and the wheels are kept on the ground when backdragging or pushing. Note: after I discovered the fel was sustaining damage I discontinued backdragging in all but the float position- but unfortunately the damage was already sustained.
My situation is further compounded by the end of the fel rectangular tubing is somewhat caved in at the top leading edge where it meets the stop material of the QA plates, and the QA plate stops are also caved in at the upper most section where the fel arms hit them when contact is made possible. I guess I would like to know what is likely to have occurred first so I can fix it and do something to make it less likely/able to occur again.
The easy part is flattening the 1/2 moon plates on an anvil and reinstalling them. What other remedies might be worthwhile in addition to doing what has to be done to undo all the bent areas mentioned above?
I'd like to reinforce and/or add additional stops, if prudent, to eliminate the recurrence of the current damage.
Your and any others thoughts/ suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
And does it mention anywhere in the owner's manual or elsewhere to not do the backdrag thing in full dump position, or better yet does it state anywhere to only do it in float position? If so, I missed it when I read the owner's manual and Kioti service manual from cover to cover - well on the service manual maybe not every page- just the ones with pics!
If it doesn't mention it maybe it should because the CUT tractor owner may not have the experience to discern between the bucket's ruggedness and the fel's weak points where damage can be avoided if warned in advance.

THANKS ALL!

 

[wallace]

I had a customer bend the linkages...we warrantied them out.
I would tell you to get new ones because once metal bends and you straighten it out it will bend much easier the second time around.
I would not recommend modifying those plates...They are cheap insurance.
If you fix the weak link you are now transferring the force to something else which may cost some big$$$
Without seeing the damage to the loader arm it hard to say what I would do to fix it.