Oil & Fuel DK35 engine oil level increasing

[MotorSeven]

"barely perceptable bypass flow out of the injectors in tubing which is external to engine anyway"

You should have a pretty good return flow...not "barely perceptable". I'd double check that line and make sure it is intact all the way back to the fuel tank. If it is intact this could be an indicator of the source of the problem.

 

[dennis52]

"Plug in bottom clutch housing is dry. ( Why a plug there ?)"

Pretty sure it's for draining condensation. In some tractors I'm told oil overfill can go into the bell housing.
But this is not answering your problem.
Good luck. You seem to be across everything.

 

[AndrewInOz]

Thanks Dennis, I subsequently looked in the manual and it is described as that. I really mean't why plug it at all rather than a hole typ with a split pin to keep free. If condensate can get in , best to have a permanent drain. Anyway, it's not filling with anything so thats ticked off.

HOWEVER, ( rolling around in bed ) I may have made a fatal assumption prev.... Coming home, I called in at our orchard where a 35hp Kutota lives. Its a great old thing, pensioned & rusty from fertilizer but reliable and certainly hasn't gained any oil since its last change some time ago!

I noticed that the fuel side of the engine appears identical to the Kioti EXCEPT the Kubota has a drain cock in the casting below the injector pump. I left site without thinking it thru so I'll need to consult the manual when there next, but its likely an oil resovoir that lubricates the inj pump cam AND the gears driving the hyd pump.

Does this "upper sump" drain by itself on a Kioti but not on a Kubota? No drain cock on the DK35...

Could this sump? erode my "watertight" test of removing the hydraulic pump and running a short 10 min test ( cos this sump was extra full of hyd oil prev leaked in there and then was flung out in the 10 min test ).

If those injectors are ok , I think I'll need prepare a strategy and gear to nail this so we get everything covered. My rough test of fuel consumption and oil gain were just not accurate enough to detect differential on two similar rates. I'll can measure the Kutoba fuel usage rather than having to guess the HP consumed by an unloaded motor. I'm thinking that measuring fuel consumption gives me an easy, accurate, almost instant insight.

Can't run till I get these injectors ticked off (+ Cu & new inlet manif gaskets )
Then can check bypass flow too.

Bit of a saga this one... & I'm sick of tipping new oil into this thing.
Andrew

 

[SSdoxie]

Thanks Dennis, I subsequently looked in the manual and it is described as that. I really mean't why plug it at all rather than a hole typ with a split pin to keep free. If condensate can get in , best to have a permanent drain. Anyway, it's not filling with anything so thats ticked off.

HOWEVER, ( rolling around in bed ) I may have made a fatal assumption prev.... Coming home, I called in at our orchard where a 35hp Kutota lives. Its a great old thing, pensioned & rusty from fertilizer but reliable and certainly hasn't gained any oil since its last change some time ago!

I noticed that the fuel side of the engine appears identical to the Kioti EXCEPT the Kubota has a drain cock in the casting below the injector pump. I left site without thinking it thru so I'll need to consult the manual when there next, but its likely an oil resovoir that lubricates the inj pump cam AND the gears driving the hyd pump.

The casting of the oler Kubota and Kioti (Deadong) engines is very similar because for years Deadong did a large share of block and head casting for Kubota. They still do some today.
The drain cock you saw was very common on Kubotas, it is drain for engine coolant. Just recently, past few years Kubota quit putting them on everything because tendancy to get hit, break and loose coolant and destroy the engine. There is no seperate oil sump to lube the injection pump. Injection pump cam & roller and rack gears are lubed through eingine oil pump supply.

Does this "upper sump" drain by itself on a Kioti but not on a Kubota? No drain cock on the DK35...

Could this sump? erode my "watertight" test of removing the hydraulic pump and running a short 10 min test ( cos this sump was extra full of hyd oil prev leaked in there and then was flung out in the 10 min test ).

If there was hydraulic oil inside the governor housing when you removed the hydraulic pump, the gear pump seal was leaking. You stated that a new gear pump was installed. Did you check to find out why the pump seal was leaking since it "looked OK"? Check control lever for the rear remote, if it is locked into the detent mode it will force hydraulics over relief, generate heat and push oil past the gear pump seal into the engine. This can happen is just a few minutes of operation.
I really suspect your new pump is leaking hydraulic fluid same as the first one. I've seen this happen too frequently to overlook the obvious.

 

[MotorSeven]

SS...I would have a hard time believing that a new replacement pump is also faulty. I didn't think about a lever stuck in detent, but if that was the case all the hydraulics would stop working as soon as things heated up(5min). If the tractor was just sitting & running this may have gone unnoticed.

 

[SSdoxie]

SS...I would have a hard time believing that a new replacement pump is also faulty. I didn't think about a lever stuck in detent, but if that was the case all the hydraulics would stop working as soon as things heated up(5min). If the tractor was just sitting & running this may have gone unnoticed.

No, hydraulics will still work. When you move a function you provide a path of lesser resistance so the oil goes there rather than over relief. if it was a CK model 3 pt wouldn't work in this case but the DKs (at least the Bobcat version of them) use a different rear remote valve that allows simultaneous use of 3 pt & rear remote.
Double check it to be sure.

 

[MichKubota]

If that much diesel fuel is leaking into oil you should be able to smell it in oil.
I know it doesn't sound like the hydraulic pump but was hydraulic pump removed from engine and tested without this pump?

 

[MotorSeven]

No, hydraulics will still work. When you move a function you provide a path of lesser resistance so the oil goes there rather than over relief. if it was a CK model 3 pt wouldn't work in this case but the DKs (at least the Bobcat version of them) use a different rear remote valve that allows simultaneous use of 3 pt & rear remote.
Double check it to be sure.

Not on mine. On two occasions while grubbing mine got bumped into detent. After about 5 min all my hydraulics stopped working....FEl, 3 point, T&T and things got real hot. That is why I neutered my rear remote lever of it's balls. I feel lucky I didn't burn the IP slap up.


Andrew...still no oil test? It's been a month and a half and you have thrown a lot of parts at it. Email Blackstones and they will send you a sample bottle free. Run it, cool it down, take a sample and drop it in the mail so once and for all you will at least know if it is fuel or hydro fluid.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

 

[AndrewInOz]

M7, Yes.
I am in the tropics on the other side of the world, and everything here has been shut down since my first site visit this week : tests + oil sample.
BTW, I did call closest lab in preparation & they indicated that it may be hard to get a definative answer if hyd dilution. But fuel dilution is easy. See what they find...
Everything reopens in new year ( & I get busy elsewhere too )

But in getting that sample, we discovered the oil gain with the the hyd pump completely removed. Cannot see a flaw in my test. But was end of day and I didn't check repeatability before reinstating pump to close off pipes.
( SSdoxie: went back & of course yr right abt Kubota coolant. Doh!)

I was onto the remotes all along ( thanks TBN ) but maybe there is a fault in flow divider / whatever & my test without the hyd pump was somehow flawed. Excluding this test, repeated hydro pump failure from external source fits the symtoms otherwise. Thanks for highlighting that SSd.

Next installment will take at least a week unless I stumble across some local shop open with a pop tester.
thks all, Andrew

 

[OlderMountain]

Did this issue ever get resolved? I am having a similar problem.