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  1. #1
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,520
    Location
    Erie, Pennsylvania
    Tractor
    Kioti CK30HST

    Default Odd starting question

    CK30hst, 450 hours. New oil, air, fuel, and hydro filters along with all fluids at 420 hours, (400 hour service). Started and ran perfectly for the 30 hours since service. Using same fuel with additive as I've always used. No repairs other than new hydro cooler.

    Normal Winter starting for the past six years is cycle glow plugs once or twice, depending on the temp, and it starts with a few seconds of cranking and continues to run. Once in a while, you'll hear that not all three cylinders are firing but smooths out in about five seconds.

    The last "two" times starting and the first it's ever had this problem, temps are 15 to 25'F, cycle glow plugs, crank, and it fires instantly, smooth with all cylinders firing, but dies after two seconds as if it ran out of fuel or you turned it off. Try starting again the same way and an instant fire with a run for two seconds. Go for the third start the same way, it starts and continues to run perfectly. Give it some warm up time and put it to work. It doesn't miss a beat and will run perfectly until you turn it off. If you do turn it off and restart after a few minutes, there isn't a problem. The problem has been identical both times.

    Any ideas why the engine has this strange start problem? It's supposed to be @40'F this weekend and I will see if the temp has anything to do with it but it has never done this before. Even at -4'F, it has started fine. The throttle does respond as it always has so I assume my injector pump and rack are working properly. It runs fine at any throttle setting or rpm. Some members have mentioned changing their precharge pump when they experienced fuel problems. Would this be a possibility or not being that it runs fine once it starts? I was also thinking it might be the ignition switch which has caused many strange problems for members. When it fires, I let off the key for the run position. The next time I start it when cold, I will watch the shut off seleniod when I crank it and let off for run.

    Any ideas or help is greatly appreciated.
    Vic
    Vic
    2004 Kioti CK30hst, KL130 fel, KB2375 bh

  2. #2
    Silver Member
    Advertiser
    MichiganIron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    518
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Tractor
    Full line of KIOTI Tractors, BEFCO and Worksaver Implements

    Default Re: Odd starting question

    There are a few simple answers. The nice thing about these diesels, all you need is air, fuel, and compression and you are off and running.

    Start with electrical, depending on the serial number of your tractor, there are 2 different solenoid set ups; Power Off (old style) and Power On. With the newer style power on solenoids, if power is interrupted to the solenoid, it will release and shut the fuel off. This can be caused by a bad key switch, relay, or harness plug.

    Next, check the fuel source. It sounds like the injector pump and rack are fine. The lift pump can be a source of issues when cold since it is a diaphragm type pump. Easily checked by pulling the fuel line from the lift pump to the fuel filter. From there, pull the fuel line from the filter to the injection pump. Each time, crank the engine a few times and check for fuel. You won't get a lot, but there should be flow. You can also turn the fuel filter to air to bleed any air from the system.

    Another source for behavior like this is a small air leak in the fuel system. Make sure all of the hoses and good, and that the clamps are all tight. A small amount of air can make the tractor stall. We have seen instances where mice chew a hose, not quite leaking, but sucking air. This can play havock on the fuel system.

    Forget about compression, sounds like you have plenty.

    We would suspect electrical first, depending on the solenoid type, then the fuel source. It doesn't sound like anything serious, just enough to be annoying.

    Hope this helps
    Michigan Iron and Equipment, LLC
    www.michironandequip.com

  3. #3
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,520
    Location
    Erie, Pennsylvania
    Tractor
    Kioti CK30HST

    Default Re: Odd starting question

    It's a 2004, D is the first character in the serial number. With the key off, the solenoid clicks and shuts the fuel off. I'll watch the solenoid when I turn the key to make sure it's working properly. I didn't think about it sucking air into the system. The filter bowl didn't show any air so I had stupidly ignored that. I'll check both the fuel lines and the lift pump to be sure.

    Thank you for your help and I'll be calling depending what part I may need. First time the CK ever gave me trouble and it surprised me. It's been like the energizer bunny...just keeps running.
    Vic
    2004 Kioti CK30hst, KL130 fel, KB2375 bh

  4. #4
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    322
    Location
    Queensland Australia
    Tractor
    Kioti DS4510HS , Kubota B7100

    Default Re: Odd starting question

    A faulty engine stop solenoid was responsible for my Kioti's difficult starting ; it eventually failed completely. The only problem I've had so far.

  5. #5
    Silver Member LaVoie Equipment's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    168
    Location
    Ashland, VA
    Tractor
    KIOTI

    Default Re: Odd starting question

    Before you go to far, a lot of times it is your key switch going bad. If you were to disassemble you would probably find some corrosion inside. Honestly you could clean it up and put it back together with some dielectric grease - but the truth is to just go buy a new one.

    I had one yesterday do the same thing. Changed the key switch and now it runs fine!

    Every KIOTI dealer has key switches in stock!

    Tony
    Tony LaVoie
    J A LaVoie Equipment Sales, Inc.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    1,520
    Location
    Erie, Pennsylvania
    Tractor
    Kioti CK30HST

    Default Re: Odd starting question

    Wouldn't you know it, 25'F and engine started perfectly as it always had. Just to be on the safe side, I gave things a check. The solenoid works fine. It is the older style where the fuel is always on and when you turn "off" the key, it pulls in for about three seconds, turns off the fuel, then returns to fuel on. Checked all the hoses/clamps and all appear good. The hose from the fuel pump to the tank is a pita and I could only go by feel without totally removing it. Disconnected the line from the filter to the injection pump. Slipped a clear piece of hose on the filter out fitting, started engine, and fuel flowed with no air bubbles. I put my finger lightly over the end of the hose and there was a couple pounds of pressure spraying fuel. If it acts up again, I'll have to take off the hose from the tank to the pump for a better inspection. It may also be the key switch starting to go and falsely energizing the solenoid. I don't want the problem to come back but then hopefully I can find the fault. It's tough when the gremlins attack.
    Vic
    2004 Kioti CK30hst, KL130 fel, KB2375 bh

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    37
    Location
    Monroe, Washington
    Tractor
    CK25HST FEL

    Default Re: Odd starting question

    My CK30 has started doing this and I'm sure it's the ignition switch. I've sprayed contact cleaner in it and is a temp fix. Sometimes I'll start mine and when the ignition switch returns from the crank position it dies unless I just barely hold a little pressure clockwise. I think the switches are around $50 and will be ordering one. You could try spraying contact cleaner or WD40 in you keyhole to see if it helps.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    1,520
    Location
    Erie, Pennsylvania
    Tractor
    Kioti CK30HST

    Default Re: Odd starting question

    Quote Originally Posted by 1wheeler1 View Post
    My CK30 has started doing this and I'm sure it's the ignition switch. I've sprayed contact cleaner in it and is a temp fix. Sometimes I'll start mine and when the ignition switch returns from the crank position it dies unless I just barely hold a little pressure clockwise. I think the switches are around $50 and will be ordering one. You could try spraying contact cleaner or WD40 in you keyhole to see if it helps.
    Those ignition switches seem to cause many problems that members have posted. My tractor is always under cover and I also made a key/ignition cover cap, like atv's have, to keep rain, snow, or dirt out when I'm using it. The ignition switch is the last thing I'd have thought of. I have a new one the way. Thanks for the info.
    Vic
    2004 Kioti CK30hst, KL130 fel, KB2375 bh

  9. #9
    Elite Member sodamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    3,540
    Location
    Big Island, HI
    Tractor
    Kioti CK30HST, Case DX35

    Default

    Likely the ignition switch. Mine has been an on and off problem for years. Finally ordered a replacement and noticed the part number has changed. Hopefully this is a better switch. Hasn't arrived yet so can't visually compare.
    David
    Please visit: Vacation Hawaii

    CK30HST, FEL w/ATI Tach all, Toothbar, Pallet forks, BH, Hydraulic Offset Flail, Brush Hog, Box Blade, PHD, Tiller, Landscape Rake, Boom pole w/extension&winch, Quick hitch, TuffTop Canopy
    Case DX35 w/LX116 "bobtach" Loader,

  10. #10
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    937
    Location
    15 mi. N. of Winchester VA
    Tractor
    CK30HST

    Default Re: Odd starting question

    Well i have a 05 ck30hst. Just to be different, I'm thinking there is some water in there somewhere and it freezes and blocks the fuel. Just figure out how far back from the injectors two seconds of diesel is and there is your problem.

    Mike

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