DK 45 flywheel rubbing starter under a load

[intel]

You can see the movement on the front crank puller. I would start the tractor with the side panels off and a load in the front bucket, i would lift the bucket and you can see the front crank pulley move out(toward the front) i would shut the tractor down with bucket still up and the pulley would stay out. I measured just at 5/32".
The whole time it is under a load there noise from the flywheel hitting/rubbing the nose of the starter sounds awful.
Know i now this is not very scientific but that is way out of spec.
There is a spec on end play, i do not have it front of me right now.
The parts break down shows only one set of thrust bearings on the last main bear assembly (toward the rear).

yes with that much movement it is not going to last long other components are going to suffer.

Yes a hand held oil gauge would possible tell me what the rest of the bearings are doing with regard to wear

[MotorSeven]

Now I wonder why I was thinking it was HST? I might be thinking new engine too...I'd hate spend the time and money to fix it, then have the same issue crop up again.

[ritcheyvs]

Obviously, my original idea (of shimming out the starter) was stupid. With luck, the starter may have limited internal damage by preventing the crank from moving too far aft.

I've been looking at my manual (2006 DK45S, which may be different) and I wonder if it is possible to replace the thrust bearing by dropping the pan? With so much movement, I suspect the original thrust bearing disintegrated. It looks like the top portion of the thrust bearing is just a crescent and maybe it's possible to slip it in place after removing the bottom main bearing cap. The bottom half has a tab but it looks like it would just slip into the lower main bearing cap after removing the cap..

Still, I think I'd first check oil pressure like ranch_hand suggested. If the pressure is bad, you are looking at a rebuild or replacement. But if the pressure is OK, the approach I suggested may be worth a try.

Also, It would be great if someone who has actually been inside one of these engines could enlighten us before taking a wrench to anything. Maybe this approach is as stupid as my first idea.

Finally, I think I'd approach Kioti about this. It's out of warranty but there is no way this should happen if original materials and workmanship were OK.

As far as I can see, "pulling the engine" is a huge job, involving splitting the tractor.

[ritcheyvs]

Disregard my discussion about replacing thrust bearings with engine installed. I studied the book some more and now I'm pretty-much convinced that it's inaccessible with the crank installed. The bearing setup is unlike a normal automotive arrangement.

[Leejohn]

I had a ford 302 that got a lot of end play on the crank one time. Took it apart and the rear main was bad, but wasn't bad enough for the end play that was in the crank. Come to find out the crank wasn't harden enough. It dug into it real bad, I would guess a good 1/16". The car had low miles and only 2 years old. Ford wouldn't even talk to me about it. Said it was due to lack of oil changes, Not True. So when you get it apart check the crank.

[seacap04]

If oil pressure is good then main bearings are good. I have never been inside one of these engines, but I would hate to spend $7,000 for a new engine when a little more labor and a couple hundred dollars in parts would fix it. Could simply be a defective/improperly installed thrust bearing.

[intel]

Ritcheyvs I did not think the shim idea was stupid


So after more investigation i have learned it is not the thrust bearings.

The reference point i was measuring for the front crank pulley was on the frame and so it was showing movement but not necessarily the crank itself, It was the whole motor.
when i first had the dial indicator on the flywheel with the starter out and jacking the rear and then the front it did not show any movement. Only movement is when the tractor was running.


The two top bell housing bolts are broke and the lower ones (behind the flywheel (there is eleven total)) are at least loose if not broke too. heck the subframe for the front end loader maybe the only thing holding the tractor together.

I feel so stupid for not seeing this before, I guess tunnel vision on just the front crank pulley and trying to keep the reference point as accurate as possible i was missing the big picture.

The tractor will still need to be split to get to the bolts behind the flywheel. I have the service manual and parts manual and i will take my time, the split is a little bigger job then i would really want to tackle but i will try.

[MotorSeven]

Wow, that's a relief...at least it's all labor and no expensive parts. I think I'll go check some bolt/nut tightness now....

[seacap04]

I was almost sure that was the issue when you started the thread. Been racking my brain ever since trying to figure out what else it could be. I split a smaller tractor a while back and it was not that big a deal. Just need to sure each end is well supported and one end can move back and forth. I used a comealong to hang the front to garage rafters and used wheeled car jack and blocking on rear.

[ritcheyvs]

So after more investigation i have learned it is not the thrust bearings.

The two top bell housing bolts are broke and the lower ones (behind the flywheel (there is eleven total)) are at least loose if not broke too.

Big relief: at least the motor seems OK. The new diagnosis makes sense. Repair is big job (although much easier than engine rebuild) but seems straightforward. I never split one but watched it done in local shop but they used overhead traveling hoist. Hard part will be keeping all the pieces organized until re-assembly. Makes you wonder why the bolts broke; maybe some got lose up allowing movement.

I expect you'll need at least two jacks (and probably helpers) to realign for final assembly.