Difficulty starting DK45SE in cooler weather (40's F)

[schweizer]

Hi guys,

In the past few days I've had quite a bit of trouble starting my Kioti. Bought new in Aug 2008, DK45SE HST, about 450 hours on it now. Starter cranks and cranks, lots of white smoke. After lots of cranking and glow plug use, it finally coughs to life with a cloud of dark smoke. It's almost acting like the glow plugs are not working, but I hear the click of the relay, and the light on the dash works (not that that means anything). Is there an easy way to check the glow plugs? Once the engine is warm or even after running for just 30-60 secs, it will restart just fine after turning it off. I've read a bunch about injection pumps on this forum, but this doesn't appear to be related. Thanks for any help.

Marcus

 

[DK35vince]

Sounds like the glow plugs are not working.
When the engine is cold check for power at the glow plugs with a test light when you first turn on the key.
My DK 35 did the same thing a few years back. My problem was a faulty glow plug timer (around $50 for a timer).

 

[BTI]

More than likely a bad glow plug relay......

BTI

 

[ritcheyvs]

I agree with glow theory. Could also be the key switch (that was the problem with my DK45S). Get a voltmeter and measure the voltage between ground (engine block) and the rail that connects the tops of the glow plugs. It should read, about, 10-12 volts when you turn the key on and a little less while cranking the engine. If it's always zero volts, check the relay and fuses. If the voltage is OK until you crank, check the key switch. If the voltage is always good you probably have one or more bad glow plugs.

 

[schweizer]

Thanks for the replies. I'll check in the next few days and post back.

Marcus

 

[landedakioti]

My dk40se hst dose the same thing has a hard time to start in cold but if i turn the key until the light goes out i shut it off and do it again then it turns over fine. But if i do it once it's hard to start and black smoke.

 

[schweizer]

Here's the current status: There's no voltage on the glow plug bar when it should be hot, and the fuses are fine. The glow-plug timer light on the dash would go on/off appropriately. So I brought the timer relay box and engine preheat controller box in to the dealer, but they said they had no way of testing them and I would have to bring in the tractor. What a bunch of BS. Just plug in each of my relay boxes in a functional tractor and see if that's the problem, but NO the mechanics excuse was that some electrical component could be fried by doing that. Come on, that a great way of doing computer repair, which I did for years before medicine. So I bought the preheat controller for $90 thinking that was the most likely culprit. No dice. Same problem. Spent until 11 pm last night testing. When I unplug the wire going to the glowplugs, the wire reads 12.5 V when the key is turned on (appropriate), but as soon as the glowplugs are connected to the wire again, voltage is 0 V again. There's good continuity between the wiring harness and the glowplug bar with an Ohmmeter. Now I'm stumped. I called a friend who has a big enough truck and trailer and the tractor went to the dealer this morning. (I only have a Toyota Tacoma and the dealer is 30 minutes away.)

Marcus

 

[ritcheyvs]

Sorry 'bout the unnecessary preheat controller but that's why I recommend lots of testing vs just swapping parts. I suspect your dealer's mechanic will just swap more parts (needed or not) and you'll end up paying for all of them. Do you have a schematic for your specific tractor? That's pretty-much a requirement for locating the real problem. Locating the specific electrical parts (relays, wires, connections, etc.) is sometimes difficult but the online parts manuals (Michigan Iron Equipment is one of several) can be real helpful. The best diagnostic tool (after the electrical schematic) is a multimeter with real long leads with alligator clips at the ends. Good luck. Hope you don't have to buy more unnecessary stuff.

 

[schweizer]

Another update: called the dealer yesterday to see if they had any news for me. He said they found a glow plug broken off in the head and they had to take off the head and were waiting for a head gasket to put it back together. The only way I see a glow plug to get broken off in the head is if they broke it while trying to get it out. Can any diesel mechanics help me out here?

 

[ritcheyvs]

... The only way I see a glow plug to get broken off in the head is if they broke it while trying to get it out. Can any diesel mechanics help me out here?

You are essentially correct but your dealer may be blameless on this particular point. I'm not familiar with details of the Kioti glow plug, but most glow plugs have a ceramic insulator supporting a heating element that sticks out into the prechamber. If this tip is bound up in enough carbon fouling it's going to break when you try to unscrew the glow plug from the head.

But, was the glow plug really bad? You state above that there was no voltage to the plugs when you should have it. Possibly that plug was shorted causing the voltage to go to zero when you connect the wire. I've encountered many open (burned out) glow plugs but never a shorted one. But I guess it could happen.