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  1. #11
    Silver Member LTEnterprises's Avatar
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    2003 Kioti 50C FEL with QA, 72" root grapple, woods ' box blade, kioti 72" tiller,18J mini excavator, 71 GMC dump truck, 4 200 cc dirt bikes, 500cc BMX XUV 4x4, 346 xp killer chain saw, 40x64x12 insulated epoxy coated floor garage

    Default Re: 2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length

    The pics on my cell turned out like sheite...gonna use a camera tonight. I uv dyed the head, no cracks OF COURSE.

    My fear is an internal crack between pre combustion inserts and close coolant passages. Getting REALLY frustrated !

    This engine is NOW STERIL !! ordered everything needed to put it back together, even new head bolts ( ARP was no help). The last time I put a HG on, it lasted around 200 hours, but I did not replace head bolts. I DID retorque them with a beam torque wrench ( the most accurate torque wrenches made ),,,click torque wrenches get em "close enough" if not calibrated REGULARLY...who has time for all of that shipping and expense ?

    I'm gonna put it back together with all new hardware, IF it goes well...Thinkin about seeing what kind of deal I could get on a HST cab kubota. I do not like the fact that all new diesel engines have EGR valves...they tend to clog intake manifolds, search the VW TDI engine intake clogging issues...seems to be "regular maintenance" for EGR equipped diesels..after 2 Kioti's since 93, and BOTH with head gasket issues...kinda leary about Kioti at the moment...I HATE saying that...REALLY.

    I'll chill some before making a decision...**** I cant get hold of the parts until 12-21..or later....gettin parts for Kioti's is like pulling teeth...weary of that too......pics of the madness will come...
    Todays Mighty Oak is just Yesterdays NUT that held it's ground

  2. #12
    Gold Member GMtb42's Avatar
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    Jun 2007
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    426
    Location
    Reno, Texas
    Tractor
    SOLD L2800DT-F, purchased Kioti CK20 HST

    Default Re: 2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length

    Quote Originally Posted by LTEnterprises View Post
    The pics on my cell turned out like sheite...gonna use a camera tonight. I uv dyed the head, no cracks OF COURSE.

    My fear is an internal crack between pre combustion inserts and close coolant passages. Getting REALLY frustrated !

    This engine is NOW STERIL !! ordered everything needed to put it back together, even new head bolts ( ARP was no help). The last time I put a HG on, it lasted around 200 hours, but I did not replace head bolts. I DID retorque them with a beam torque wrench ( the most accurate torque wrenches made ),,,click torque wrenches get em "close enough" if not calibrated REGULARLY...who has time for all of that shipping and expense ?

    I'm gonna put it back together with all new hardware, IF it goes well...Thinkin about seeing what kind of deal I could get on a HST cab kubota. I do not like the fact that all new diesel engines have EGR valves...they tend to clog intake manifolds, search the VW TDI engine intake clogging issues...seems to be "regular maintenance" for EGR equipped diesels..after 2 Kioti's since 93, and BOTH with head gasket issues...kinda leary about Kioti at the moment...I HATE saying that...REALLY.

    I'll chill some before making a decision...**** I cant get hold of the parts until 12-21..or later....gettin parts for Kioti's is like pulling teeth...weary of that too......pics of the madness will come...
    What the heck are you doing to make head gaskets blow? 2 of them. Same manufacture. Bad luck?
    Just seems odd.

  3. #13
    Silver Member LTEnterprises's Avatar
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    Jan 2002
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    142
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    KY
    Tractor
    2003 Kioti 50C FEL with QA, 72" root grapple, woods ' box blade, kioti 72" tiller,18J mini excavator, 71 GMC dump truck, 4 200 cc dirt bikes, 500cc BMX XUV 4x4, 346 xp killer chain saw, 40x64x12 insulated epoxy coated floor garage

    Default Re: 2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length

    I've never overheated one...I mean ever...I am beginning to believe it's poor head / gasket design.

    Had I not been running non aqueous propolyne(sp?) glycol zero pressure cooling system, I believe the radiator and/or hoses would have exploded.

    These are some pics that turned our FAIR, still need to get one of cylinder head

    On the block side of head gasket, I can see SOME combustion witness (lower side of sealing ring in pic) this is where the pre combustion chamber seals from the top side of the gasket
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length-dk50-block-jpg   2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length-head-gasket-block-side-jpg   2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length-head-side-headgasket-jpg   2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length-r-view-dk50c-head-removed   2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length-dk50c-l-side-head-removed  

    Last edited by LTEnterprises; 12-12-2012 at 12:48 PM. Reason: more info
    Todays Mighty Oak is just Yesterdays NUT that held it's ground

  4. #14
    Super Member Coyote machine's Avatar
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    May 2009
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    6,388
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    Southern VT
    Tractor
    '10 Kioti DK 40se/hst KL-401 FEL, loaded tires, KB-2485 bhoe, Tuffline TB160 boxblade, Woods QA forks, MIE Hydraulic bhoe thumb & ripper tooth, Igland 4001 winch, & GR-20 Log Grapple. Woods BBX72" Mower. Diamondplate aluminum canopy.

    Default Re: 2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length

    Quote Originally Posted by LTEnterprises View Post
    I've never overheated one...I mean ever...I am beginning to believe it's poor head / gasket design.

    Had I not been running non aqueous propolyne(sp?) glycol zero pressure cooling system, I believe the radiator and/or hoses would have exploded.

    These are some pics that turned our FAIR, still need to get one of cylinder head

    On the block side of head gasket, I can see SOME combustion witness (lower side of sealing ring in pic) this is where the pre combustion chamber seals from the top side of the gasket
    Pics are better when taken BEFORE consuming large quantities of one's favorite beverage!?
    Now, back to the work at hand. I agree, you may still have a head problem, or less likely a head gasket problem. Unfortunately you won't know until everything is back together.
    My other question is about your use of non-aqueos coolant. Why are you using that type?
    It is just my opinion, BUT is it possible by using the above, you have created a situation where the heat normally extracted by the cooling system is CAUSING your failed gasket issues because it cannot transfer heat out as fast as conventional coolant?
    2010 DK-40se/hst, KL-401 FEL, (reversible cutting edge), Titan Tree Shear. 72" Ratchet Rake. Fit Rite Top-N-Tilt hydraulics & diverter. HLA Series 2000 7' plow, Aquiline MPC rear chains. Samuri Sickle bar.

    2015 Husky AWD Rider 322T Combi 103 deck. Scag Wildcat: Kawasaki 26HP, bagger. Dr. brush mower, & 42" lawn deck, Dr. self propelled, 6.5HP Trimmer mower. Pro-Mow 3 gang, no HP.

    Bunch of STIHL chainsaws: 011x 2, MS192T, MS200T, MS180C, MS230, MS270 (Wood Boss), 038 Farmboss.

  5. #15
    Gold Member GMtb42's Avatar
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    Reno, Texas
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    SOLD L2800DT-F, purchased Kioti CK20 HST

    Default Re: 2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length

    Ah that Evans stuff. Have read about it on the race software tuning site I visit, and motorcycle forum I am on.
    Not real impressed with it, some say it is just a snake oil like product.

    Good read here ; http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/spid...s-website.html

    Quote from there ; "MSDS you referenced and it appears the other 31% is propylene glycol which is not toxic along with a small amount of a proprietary anti-corrosion package, but with 69% being ethylene glycol (the main and toxic ingredient in standard coolant) I wont be drinking the Evans coolant anytime soon!"

  6. #16
    Silver Member LTEnterprises's Avatar
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    KY
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    2003 Kioti 50C FEL with QA, 72" root grapple, woods ' box blade, kioti 72" tiller,18J mini excavator, 71 GMC dump truck, 4 200 cc dirt bikes, 500cc BMX XUV 4x4, 346 xp killer chain saw, 40x64x12 insulated epoxy coated floor garage

    Default Re: 2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length

    I'm not putting the "evans" back in, if I ever get my parts delivered. I too was paranoid about waterless cooling. The gauge never went past the second "normal" mark and I IR temped the whole engine, and never saw anything above 210*F. even @ the head, which is the hottest point in standard coolant flow engines. I think relocating the battery AWAY( can be seen from the left side tractor pic @ the bottom, battery cover removed) from crammed right next to the front of the condensor, did more for cooling and a/c performance than anything else I could have done

    The battery sits out front @ the bottom of my home made HD grille guard ( gotta LOVE plasma cutters ! ) Inside of a vented massive channel iron bottomed and heavy steel enclosure. It has been tested MANY times, hitting large oak and hickory, etc logs while using my grapple.

    BUT, I am not putting "evans" back in. Why should I, it'll likely get blown out the overflow anyway. I do like the Idea of coolant not dancing off the metal surfaces when things do get a little warm. I know straight EG will make one run hot. I put pure EG in a car once, ran 220*F and would not cool any lower than that, even with a monster radiator installed. 50/50 brought it down to 180*F. Ran evans in that one too for a few years, didn't get hot. I switched to toy red G05 HOAT and 50% DI water because it sits alot, and gaskets ( timing cover ) like to go bad from erosion, even when drained dry. Starting to run that one more now. Got TOO MUCH $$$$$$ in it to let it sit.

    I ordered everything from MIE, it will take a week for them to get the parts in their hands, then ship em out to me.

    I still can't get an answer about the pre comb. inserts sitting higher than the head surface, mainly in the combustion chamber side of the insert. The repair manual says "do NOT use a straight edge accross the combustion chamber area of the cylinder head. MAYBE they are a bit higher ?? thats the ONLY clue I have found about em.

    I'm gonna get into Flatness ( block and head surface) in DETAIL this weekend, chasing threads, etc.....crossing fingers.

    Did some mic'ing...M11x1.25 and 7/16 x 20 are the SAME...cept 7/16 is .0012" larger than 11mm... if it weren't for the fact they are HEAD BOLTS, i'd chase em with 7/16 x 20 tap
    Todays Mighty Oak is just Yesterdays NUT that held it's ground

  7. #17
    Gold Member GMtb42's Avatar
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    Reno, Texas
    Tractor
    SOLD L2800DT-F, purchased Kioti CK20 HST

    Default Re: 2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length

    Jay Leno ran a episode on Jay's Garage on Evans products, I remember watching it, I think it is still archived on his car site, was intrigued, but then did some research and asking questions. Maybe for a car collector that lets things sit for long periods it will do fine, just don't know about in use equipment. But on Evan's site it list truck fleets that us the stuff.
    Yeah straight EG does not work well. I personally use recommended mixture of antifreeze and then add Water Wetter.
    I found Water Wetter when I was doing gaming rigs and water cooling the overclocked CPU processor (yes with a water pump, heat sink and radiator), worked great could see 15* to 20* drop in temp over straight water.
    I then used Water Wetter in my truck, good stuff, a lot of the track guys at the 1/4 mile track use Water Wetter too.

  8. #18
    Super Member Coyote machine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    6,388
    Location
    Southern VT
    Tractor
    '10 Kioti DK 40se/hst KL-401 FEL, loaded tires, KB-2485 bhoe, Tuffline TB160 boxblade, Woods QA forks, MIE Hydraulic bhoe thumb & ripper tooth, Igland 4001 winch, & GR-20 Log Grapple. Woods BBX72" Mower. Diamondplate aluminum canopy.

    Default Re: 2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length

    Quote Originally Posted by GMtb42 View Post
    Jay Leno ran a episode on Jay's Garage on Evans products, I remember watching it, I think it is still archived on his car site, was intrigued, but then did some research and asking questions. Maybe for a car collector that lets things sit for long periods it will do fine, just don't know about in use equipment. But on Evan's site it list truck fleets that us the stuff.
    Yeah straight EG does not work well. I personally use recommended mixture of antifreeze and then add Water Wetter.
    I found Water Wetter when I was doing gaming rigs and water cooling the overclocked CPU processor (yes with a water pump, heat sink and radiator), worked great could see 15* to 20* drop in temp over straight water.
    I then used Water Wetter in my truck, good stuff, a lot of the track guys at the 1/4 mile track use Water Wetter too.
    I agree with you about 100% EG is like sludge and doesn't help. This is one of those more is NOT better situations.
    I know nothing about Evans products but do again agree that it is probably great for Jay's garage type cars, but likely to provide little to no benefit to a diesel tractor engine. And diesel fleet trucks are a whole different animal from tractor and sitting in one spot vintage show cars. Water Wetter? Who would'a thunk? Never heard of that product either- which says nothing except on these two products I'm clueless, but ONLY on them, nothing else!?

    I'm pulling for the OP to put it back together and not have to open the hood for the next decade except for routine maint.
    2010 DK-40se/hst, KL-401 FEL, (reversible cutting edge), Titan Tree Shear. 72" Ratchet Rake. Fit Rite Top-N-Tilt hydraulics & diverter. HLA Series 2000 7' plow, Aquiline MPC rear chains. Samuri Sickle bar.

    2015 Husky AWD Rider 322T Combi 103 deck. Scag Wildcat: Kawasaki 26HP, bagger. Dr. brush mower, & 42" lawn deck, Dr. self propelled, 6.5HP Trimmer mower. Pro-Mow 3 gang, no HP.

    Bunch of STIHL chainsaws: 011x 2, MS192T, MS200T, MS180C, MS230, MS270 (Wood Boss), 038 Farmboss.

  9. #19
    Silver Member
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    Penobscot,Me
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    07 Kioti DK45 SE HST/401 FEL

    Default Re: 2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length

    I am no expert. I do not have any experence inside small modern diesels. The old Cats I worked with the precomb cham was completely over the bore. The liner was shimmed above the block a couple thousandths. This is how you sealed the chamber. Without seeing a pic of the buisness side of the head I don't see how you would seal the chamber with offset protruding nozzels. It did leak a little ways into the metal as your pics show. But as you said it did not appear to completely breach the metal seal. I do not see any reason for protruding precomb cham nozzles.
    Don
    Kioti DK45 SE HST/401 FEL, 7 ft landscape rake, 4 ft QA forks, 7' Fisher snowplow converted to QA, Satoh Bull 630D w/fel (being restored) JD 317, mower, tiller

  10. #20
    Silver Member LTEnterprises's Avatar
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    Location
    KY
    Tractor
    2003 Kioti 50C FEL with QA, 72" root grapple, woods ' box blade, kioti 72" tiller,18J mini excavator, 71 GMC dump truck, 4 200 cc dirt bikes, 500cc BMX XUV 4x4, 346 xp killer chain saw, 40x64x12 insulated epoxy coated floor garage

    Default Re: 2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length

    quick update, I found the issue ( I hope) the pre comb inserts were higher than the head sealing surface, gottem flattened. Using my learned machine shop apprentice days of taking a flat file before gauging, and running it over the head surface. removes high spots caused by bolt tightening and knocks off any small high spots.....I got the pre comb inserts flat, straight edged the block and head...GOOD drag using a .001" feeler gauge...took some internal coolant passage pix with my snap on BK6000 borescope. Also got some inside the pre comb chambers while looking for cracks / leaks.

    I have more, this should give an idea of inside condition though
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length-kioti-dk50c-4a200t-block-coolant   2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length-kioti-dk50c-4a200t-head-corner   2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length-kioti-dk50c-4a200t-pre-comb   2003 Dk50C 4A200T head bolt length-kioti-dk50c-4a200t-internal-engie  
    Todays Mighty Oak is just Yesterdays NUT that held it's ground

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