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  1. #21
    Veteran Member
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    Feb 2012
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    Northern Michigan
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    KIOTI DK50 HST

    Default Re: Only front chains?

    Alright let's see if I can explain this correctly. The front drive on these tractors is more of a assist then a full time 4WD like on bigger equipment sooo it is not quite as robust as the rear drive. The drive ratios and tire sizes are set up so the output ratios are the same to the front and rear. So when you are in 4WD the front and rear drives ARE locked together and spin at the same speed in the DRIVE TRAIN, does not make any difference the tires are different sizes because the gear ratios take care of the tire size difference. Now when you put front chains on the stick up farther than the rear chains well you just effectivly changed the tire size and also messed up the gear ratio that the factory had worked out, sooo this put the driveline into a bind in 4WD and it does it even going in a straight line. With the 4WD out it will NOT bind up. So basically if it were me and I had all 4 chained up I would not use 4WD unless I was just getting unstuck. I would not chain up just the front either. The rear is designed to take all of the torque all of the time so the rears would get chained first and the fronts only in extreme conditions like ice.[like we are seeing now] I am still going to just use the rears and see what happens. CJ
    Kioti DK50HST Cab
    401 FEL
    Saws, 338xp,346xp mod,372xp mod, 390xp, Stihl combi 130 trimmer.

  2. #22
    Platinum Member MF1433V's Avatar
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    Nov 2012
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    842
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    East Coast
    Tractor
    Massey Ferguson 1433V

    Default Re: Only front chains?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJONE View Post
    Alright let's see if I can explain this correctly. The front drive on these tractors is more of a assist then a full time 4WD like on bigger equipment sooo it is not quite as robust as the rear drive. The drive ratios and tire sizes are set up so the output ratios are the same to the front and rear. So when you are in 4WD the front and rear drives ARE locked together and spin at the same speed in the DRIVE TRAIN, does not make any difference the tires are different sizes because the gear ratios take care of the tire size difference. Now when you put front chains on the stick up farther than the rear chains well you just effectivly changed the tire size and also messed up the gear ratio that the factory had worked out, sooo this put the driveline into a bind in 4WD and it does it even going in a straight line. With the 4WD out it will NOT bind up. So basically if it were me and I had all 4 chained up I would not use 4WD unless I was just getting unstuck. I would not chain up just the front either. The rear is designed to take all of the torque all of the time so the rears would get chained first and the fronts only in extreme conditions like ice.[like we are seeing now] I am still going to just use the rears and see what happens. CJ
    Sorry I call BS on this. I understand what you are saying, but just isn't significant enough to cause the "binding" you are describing on dirt, mud, snow, or ice. And these are the only conditions we use 4WD. 4WD on pavment or concrete is bad for the drivetrain chains or no chains.

    And the text I bolded is simply not true, unless I am not understanding what you are saying. Front and rear tire sets need to be matched. If you change the rear you should change the front by a proportionate amount.

  3. #23
    Veteran Member
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    KIOTI DK50 HST

    Default Re: Only front chains?

    Quote Originally Posted by dgoyette View Post
    Sorry I call BS on this. I understand what you are saying, but just isn't significant enough to cause the "binding" you are describing on dirt, mud, snow, or ice. And these are the only conditions we use 4WD. 4WD on pavment or concrete is bad for the drivetrain chains or no chains.

    And the text I bolded is simply not true, unless I am not understanding what you are saying. Front and rear tire sets need to be matched. If you change the rear you should change the front by a proportionate amount.
    Again it is very simple The gear ratios are set to allow for the tire size difference. I'll tell you what put a tire 1" smaller on the front or back axle of your 4X4 truck lock it in 4WD and drive it on a dirt road, [you said dirt would not matter right?] then try to unlock the 4WD and I promise you it will not unlock because it will be in a bind.I used to have people come into my shop all the time who put new front tires on their 4X4 and it would not unlock. Well with the old tires on the back I just laughed and move 1 new tire to the back and the old to the front and it magically fixed itself!! you can call BS all you want but unless you have been doing repairs for the last oh 20+ years or so on stuff just like this I will go on what I have seen and what makes sence. Remeber it is your tractor and you can do what you want but don't complain when it breaks.

    So your last sentence you explained it to yourself, YES if you put a 2" bigger OD tire on a 4X4 vehicle you need to put a 2" od bigger on each axle. Now on units like our tractors with different gear ratios front and back to make up the difference on tire size I honestly do not know if the sizing holds true or not, I have never tried it for myself with equipment. CJ
    Last edited by CJONE; 01-11-2013 at 12:42 PM.
    Kioti DK50HST Cab
    401 FEL
    Saws, 338xp,346xp mod,372xp mod, 390xp, Stihl combi 130 trimmer.

  4. #24
    Elite Member
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    Feb 2002
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    western,pa.
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    Kioti DK 35

    Default Re: Only front chains?

    All I know is that I have been running chains on all 4 to snowplow for years with my DK 35.
    In the winter I never take it out of 4 wheel drive till spring.
    Works fine for me. No damage, no windup. Just goes where I want it to go.
    Vince,
    Kioti DK 35
    Hustler Super Z

  5. #25
    Elite Member Coyote machine's Avatar
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    May 2009
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    4,696
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    Southern VT
    Tractor
    '10 Kioti DK 40se/hst KL-401 FEL, loaded tires, KB-2485 bhoe, Tuffline TB160 boxblade, Woods QA forks, MIE Hydraulic bhoe thumb & ripper tooth, Igland 4001 winch, & GR-20 Log Grapple. Woods BBX72" Mower. Diamondplate aluminum canopy.

    Default Re: Only front chains?

    Quote Originally Posted by dgoyette View Post
    This appears to be just describing an open differential. I don't see how chains could possible cause and issue in absence of any other support or explanation.
    What my dealer was saying is with chains on the front the slippage that normally occurs without chains is hampered and does not allow the front differential to do what it was designed to do. The only documentation or support explanation provided at this time is the reputation of someone with 50+ years of owning a tractor dealership and the results of fixing broken tractors during that timeframe.
    2010 DK-40se/hst, Kioti KL-401 FEL, (reversible Kioti cutting edge), 72" Ratchet Rake. Fit Rite Top-N-Tilt hydraulics & diverter valve. HLA Series 2000 7' snowplow, Aquiline MPC rear chains. Samuri Sickle bar.

    Scag Wildcat: Kawasaki 26HP, with bagger. Dr. brush mower, & 42" lawn deck, Dr. self propelled, 6.5HP Trimmer mower. Pro-Mow 3 gang mower, no HP.

    Bunch of STIHL chainsaws: 011x 2, MS192T, MS200T, MS180C, MS230, MS270 (Wood Boss), 038 Farmboss, '86 anniversary edition.

  6. #26
    Veteran Member
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    KIOTI DK50 HST

    Default Re: Only front chains?

    Quote Originally Posted by DK35vince View Post
    All I know is that I have been running chains on all 4 to snowplow for years with my DK 35.
    In the winter I never take it out of 4 wheel drive till spring.
    Works fine for me. No damage, no windup. Just goes where I want it to go.
    Vince what kind of chains are you running? Are they standards or V-BAR? CJ
    Kioti DK50HST Cab
    401 FEL
    Saws, 338xp,346xp mod,372xp mod, 390xp, Stihl combi 130 trimmer.

  7. #27
    Veteran Member vtsnowedin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Only front chains?

    I'm still learning, but from what I read in my owners manual the fronts are sized and geared to turn about ten percent faster then the rears when new to give the fronts a positive bite for steering so they will pull the tractor in the direction you want to go. As the fronts wear down, and they will wear down faster then the rears in most cases they will get closer to even with the rears which is OK but eventually they will be enough under size that the rears are pushing them which is bad as it makes the tractor hard to steer. When that happens you need a new pair of fronts. Putting chains on just the rears gives them an advantage and uses up some of that ten percent the fronts started with but when new should not be a problem. Putting chains on all four should maintain the balance but I might go with a less aggressive chain on the fronts to allow slippage when needed rather then have the whole weight of the tractor hanging on the side of a U joint when it is turned to full steering lock. If your fronts are noticeably more worn then the rears chaining just the fronts might be a good thing as it would restore their original working diameter. I still wouldn't flog it while making a hard turn though.

  8. #28
    Veteran Member
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    KIOTI DK50 HST

    Default Re: Only front chains?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote machine View Post
    What my dealer was saying is with chains on the front the slippage that normally occurs without chains is hampered and does not allow the front differential to do what it was designed to do. The only documentation or support explanation provided at this time is the reputation of someone with 50+ years of owning a tractor dealership and the results of fixing broken tractors during that timeframe.
    I could see where the added traction of the V BAR chains and a gear tractor could break something in the front diff. The hydrostat does really cusion things a bunch. I know with the front chains on I could literally climb right up the snow pile. The bottom line is you are taking a chance, is it worth it, well that is for each one to decide. For myself no front chains unless we get alot of ice. I really don't need them, been doing good so far. CJ
    Kioti DK50HST Cab
    401 FEL
    Saws, 338xp,346xp mod,372xp mod, 390xp, Stihl combi 130 trimmer.

  9. #29
    Platinum Member
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    Jun 2004
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    861
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    Armstrong, BC
    Tractor
    Kioti DK35 SE HST (2011)

    Default Re: Only front chains?

    As stated earlier, I have DUO's on the rear and some very worn (v-bars shaved level with link) small truck chains converted to 2-link ladders for the front (of DK35).

    I use 4WD mainly hills and virtually all of my snowblowing is on a hard-packed snow (not ice) base. I can sometimes see the fronts giving a bit when moving up a hard-packed section. I think it is important to maintain a steady, smooth pace with no shock load. That may required going slower than the tractor/blower's capacity, particularly uphill.

    The times I do notice some minor slippage and shock is when I am in 2WD and the DUO's give way in those bare patches between the patterns. That's when I'll use the 4WD.

    Going by feel, I don't sense I'm stressing anything under my road conditions and operating speeds. I think I am much harder on the front end in the summer when moving a full bucket of gravel or fresh-cut birch down a steep, hard-packed trail with the front end doing all the braking.

    I think it is important to minimize shock and stress as much as possible through smooth operation. I'm no expert but it seems a lot of it can be sensed through feel. For example, I make turns as wide as possible, especially in 4WD. On the DK35, and on firm ground, there is a noticably tighter feel to everything from the last 1/2 revolution of the steering wheel to the tightest possible turn. It's OK to go to the limits when necessary but good to make it as easy as possible for the machine.

  10. #30
    Elite Member
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    western,pa.
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    Kioti DK 35

    Default Re: Only front chains?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJONE View Post
    Vince what kind of chains are you running? Are they standards or V-BAR? CJ
    Standard 4 link ladders, front and rear.
    I'm pushing a 9' converted truck plow and traction is really good.
    Vince,
    Kioti DK 35
    Hustler Super Z

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