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  1. #1
    New Member
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    johnstown pa
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    ck20hst

    Default ck20s gear vs hst

    Hi everybody. I know this has probally been brought up in the past, i did a search and really didnt find anything though. I currently have a ck20s hst with industial tires, ive owned it for over three years and have had zero issues with it. I have 6 acres on all hill. i cut about 4 of it with the bobcat 60 inch midmount mower which i love. my issue is high range. it can just barely cut my grass and without bogging down to nothing on certain parts of the yard. leaves in the fall are evenworse. I also use it to plow my drive way which is about 200 ft of steep blacktop, it does ok cause i plow down but then reeally doesnt like backing up in high. i use low to pull my dump trailer ect. I was thinking about trading it in on a gear model as i can get a good deal on a new one. that way i could keep my mower deck loader and all my homemade stuff. I have no problem shifting just wondering how much more power it can put to the ground for these simple tasks. I have heard they run alot better. maybe you guys could let me know what you think. thanks

  2. #2
    gkm
    gkm is offline
    Silver Member gkm's Avatar
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    Sep 2007
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    102
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    Shepherdstown
    Tractor
    Bocat CT335 HST Cab

    Default Re: ck20s gear vs hst

    Quote Originally Posted by ck20 View Post
    Hi everybody. I know this has probally been brought up in the past, i did a search and really didnt find anything though. I currently have a ck20s hst with industial tires, ive owned it for over three years and have had zero issues with it. I have 6 acres on all hill. i cut about 4 of it with the bobcat 60 inch midmount mower which i love. my issue is high range. it can just barely cut my grass and without bogging down to nothing on certain parts of the yard. leaves in the fall are evenworse. I also use it to plow my drive way which is about 200 ft of steep blacktop, it does ok cause i plow down but then reeally doesnt like backing up in high. i use low to pull my dump trailer ect. I was thinking about trading it in on a gear model as i can get a good deal on a new one. that way i could keep my mower deck loader and all my homemade stuff. I have no problem shifting just wondering how much more power it can put to the ground for these simple tasks. I have heard they run alot better. maybe you guys could let me know what you think. thanks
    I had a ck20s geared for five years and absolutely loved it. I also have a little > 3 acres and it's very steep and hilly. I had a kioti 60" rear finish mower that was an excellent mower...never any trouble with the tractor or implements. I always mowed in 2nd gear high range and it never bogged on hills whatsoever.

    The only reason I moved up is because I really wanted a cab tractor and purchased when the "right" deal came along.

    Feel free to ask away about the gear tractor. Keep in mind that there appears to be a 25hp that will replace the current 22hp.
    Bobcat CT335 Hydro Cab w/ BobTach FEL, 72" Box Blade, 72" finish mower, 3pt spreader, 1000 lb. roller, tow-along 30 gal. sprayer

  3. #3
    New Member HereticWild's Avatar
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    Jun 2012
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    22
    Location
    Armstrong, BC
    Tractor
    Kioti CK20 HST

    Default Re: ck20s gear vs hst

    I have a CK20HST and 2.5 acres with the entire property gently sloping (most of it would be considered a hill).
    My dealer told me that I shouldn't need to go in to High ever on my property. When I go backwards up some steeper parts I just increase the RPM's a little.

    Here's a youtube of my property when I first got my Kioti.
    Yes...those were some really mean weeds and she never bogged down.



  4. #4
    Platinum Member ritcheyvs's Avatar
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    Nov 2011
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    622
    Location
    Kittrell, NC
    Tractor
    Kioti DK45S

    Default Re: ck20s gear vs hst

    I can't say about a CK20 but I have a DK45S (gear) and the traction power is awesome. If you forget and leave the parking brake on it will still drive right off. It pulled a stuck school bus (with flat tires) to it's final resting place. It pulled a dump truck that couldn't get back up the hill after dumping its load. It pushes piles of dirt like they weren't there. But you need to minimize clutch slip; replacing a tractor clutch is a big job.
    Scott
    Kioti DK45S, KL451 loader, Howse 601S cutter, Phoenix M72S mower

  5. #5
    Veteran Member
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    Feb 2011
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    1,743
    Location
    Trivoli, IL
    Tractor
    SSTT (Sideways Snake Tain Tractor) and STB (sideways train box) tractor, dirt harvester

    Default Re: ck20s gear vs hst

    if you had a manual transmission, (clutch, and gear shift) for every little thing ya did. you would more likely end up stalling the tractor out, to point engine dies when running in to high of a gear and to much load on the tractor.

    when dealing with a HST like transmission, it can be easy, to "over heat" the transmission, buy trying to run in to high of a gear. the engine does not die, but the hyd oil in the hyd pump and then hyd motor combo in the transmission. will force oil through seals and vary high tolerance passage ways (around pistons, and like) when this happens heat can build up quickly. ya engine does not die, but the abuse is taken out on the transmission. long term, transmission may need to be rebuilt, due to you really do not get any "tall tell signs" like an engine dieing with an HST transmission.

    i never really liked a "gear / manual" transmission more so when working on hills, and then when frequent needing to change (forward / reverse) or changing gears. push in clutch change gear, release clutch, and in that split second i have just slid down hill. it may be a fraction of an inch but i have, then when i release clutch, there is sudden power to the tires, and that wanted little bit of 1/2" movement just went 2 inches movement and just ran into something.

    HST and like automatic transmissions, reduce that "time lapse" between what it would take me to physically shift, vs a computer controlled or mechanical linkage controlled shifting. that time lapse is a big thing for me. ya couple HP of engine are eaten up by a HST transmission. but that couple HP for much smoother transition in Speeds and keep torque at the wheels constant is a huge plus for me.

    =========
    stop being a "ram rod" and pushing things to point of breaking, slower down. take your time. goto a lower gear.

    see if your tractor has a hyd oil cooler for the transmission, and make sure it is clean of dust and grass and weeds.
    see about setting up a temp gauge on hyd oil cooling line for the HST transmission. and actually get some sort of readings, you can actually judge things by. vs. just guessing.

    look at proper ballast (adding weight), either filling rear tires with a fluid, or placing a ballast box, or using some other 3pt hitch implement as rear ballast, for what ever you are doing on with front of tractor, and vice vs. when using 3pt hitch implements, see if you need to add weight to the front of tractor.

    highest gear is normally not "work" gear, but a traveling gear, to get from point A to point B fast, with no real extra load on the tractor.
    Ryan

  6. #6
    Elite Member Gittyup's Avatar
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    Mid Atlantic
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    Kioti CK25 Shuttle Shift, loaded tires, JD X739

    Default Re: ck20s gear vs hst

    The HST vs gear issue is a personal preference, for the most part. The problem with the CK20 is that it only has two ranges. The problem with it's manual tranny is that it is not a shuttle shift. You only have 2 reverse speeds on a CK20 gear and they are both slow. If you absolutely have to stay in the CK20 frame, I'd hold out until the 25 hp version is available, and then stay with HST. Otherwise, I'd go with the CK35HST. If you could get a CK27 gear (not sure any new ones left and they stopped offering gear in this tractor - don't get it either), that would be a nice choice.

    I was kinda in your shoes when deciding to buy back in 2006. I was thinking CK20, but didn't like the gear and the HST "worried" me for my hilly uses. So, I opted for a CK25 gear, which at the time was only a few dollars more than a CK20HST. This gave me much more hydraulics, a heavier tractor, SS tranny with 8 reverse speeds, and maximum power to the wheels/PTO. Anyway, if you can handle the CK35HST size/cost, that's the best choice in the CK line.

  7. #7
    Elite Member Coyote machine's Avatar
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    Southern VT
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    '10 Kioti DK 40se/hst KL-401 FEL, loaded tires, KB-2485 bhoe, Tuffline TB160 boxblade, Woods QA forks, MIE Hydraulic bhoe thumb & ripper tooth, Igland 4001 winch, & GR-20 Log Grapple. Woods BBX72" Mower. Diamondplate aluminum canopy.

    Default Re: ck20s gear vs hst

    FWIW, I think you have to get OUT of HIGH 'gear'. It's NOT designed to do what you're trying to do. Yes you'll take a little more time to cut your lawn, but you won't be straining your tractor while doing it and the end result cut will likely be better too, with more power to the mower with higher engine rpms and less chance of doing transmission damage.
    If it were me I wouldn't trade to a manual trans to do what you want to do. Stick with it for next season, use the lower gear, and if it's still not doing what you want go to a higher HP in hst or gear. Unless you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, I'd see what you can do with what you have, using it correctly for the task at hand.
    2010 DK-40se/hst, Kioti KL-401 FEL, (with reversible Kioti cutting edge), 72" Ratchet Rake. Fit Rite Top-N-Tilt hydraulics & diverter valve. HLA Series 2000 7' snowplow, Aquiline MPC rear chains.

    Scag Wildcat: Kawasaki 26HP, with bagger system. Dr. brush mower, & 42" lawn deck, Dr. self propelled, 6.5HP Trimmer mower. Pro-Mow 3 gang mower, no HP.

    Bunch of STIHL chainsaws: 011x 2, MS192T, MS200T, MS180C, MS230, MS270 (Wood Boss), 038 Farmboss, '86 anniversary edition.

  8. #8
    Super Star Member IslandTractor's Avatar
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    Prudence Island, RI
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    2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH

    Default Re: ck20s gear vs hst

    I owned a CK20 hst for several years. My only serious complaint about the machine was the two speed range HST. It sucked. Reliable yes, but with only 20 or 21hp and a heavy tractor, it was essentially useless on any grade in high range. That meant that I had to do all mowing in low range. Slower than necessary as a middle range would have been ideal for most of my mowing needs which were on a gentle incline. I think it is ridiculous that Kioti has never upgraded the HST to three range. kubota upgraded their B series tractors to three range about three or four years ago. It cannot cost that much extra to put in a three range tranny and that would fix one of the only real problems with the CK20. Of course adding another five or six hp would probably also do the job but there is no real need for the extra HP as the machine is already a brute in low range. It just needs a middle range like virtually every other HST tractor now on the market.

    I prefer HST over gear but the CK20 is one tractor for which I would seriously consider a gear version. If mowing is a major task and loader work is a minor task then I'd certainly go gear. If loader work was most of the work then I'd go HST. Flat area, HST. Mixed use in even slight hills ???? probably HST but with a lot of muttering under my breath about the morons at Kioti who cannot be bothered to make a simple change to keep the CK20 up to date and competitive with the equivalent Kubota and Mahindra models.

  9. #9
    Elite Member Gittyup's Avatar
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    Kioti CK25 Shuttle Shift, loaded tires, JD X739

    Default Re: ck20s gear vs hst

    I don't think the Mahindra MAX tractors have 3 ranges. Yes, a 3-range, 25 hp, CK20 HST would be very sweet indeed.

  10. #10
    New Member
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    johnstown pa
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    ck20hst

    Default Re: ck20s gear vs hst

    Well, today i test drove a ck20s gear with loader and 60inch rear finish mower, on some pretty steep hills, alot steeper than i have at my home. In 2nd gear high range it climbed the hills under pto speed around 2200 rpm like nothing. That gear is for me what seems to be a perfect speed to cut grass. My ck20s hst would not even come close to climbing those hills in high without my loader and no mower deck on. Im pretty sure im going to make the switch.

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