Kioti DK35 won't start won't stop fix

AJP · May 7, 2013

Just by way of some help for the next guy that experiences similar problems.

After several years my battery packed it in (apparently). Charging overnight - and for multiple days on trickle (with ground lead disconnected) couldn't bring battery back to life so I purchased a new one. I had experienced sporadic problems with "no crank" before this. When I installed the new battery I had success on a few starts then nothing. I removed the ground lead from chassis and the chassis connection was badly corroded. After cleaning it I got a couple more starts ... then nothing. I removed the positive cable and it "seemed" ok .... took me a while to discover that I had an intermittent connection on the positive cable battery terminal end...it turned out that the cable end where it entered the sealed lug was corroded and this was barely visible when examining it. First time I have ever experienced this.... I cut the battery lug off and replaced it with a new lug with 2 screws and a compression plate that held the wire tight against the terminal lug. NOW I had LOTS of cranking power. I am not overly enthusiastic about these types of replacement lugs ... but it worked!! and was cheaper that a 48 inch cable required to span the distance from the battery positive to the starter solenoid.

Operated the tractor for about 25 minutes and then turned it off. Engine would NOT stop. This had happened a few times before but before it would eventually shut itself down after a few minutes. This time it ran for about 15 minutes then shut down.

Now the tractor would NOT Start. Stupidly I finally discovered I was out of fuel (partly because I had stopped on the side of a slope... :banghead::banghead:

Fueled up and tried again .. lots of crank.... no start! Was advised that probably needed to bleed air... tried the little knob next to the injector pump, cracked open the fuel filter ... cranked for 20 seconds etc. Then saw the "Stop" switch and jiggled it. Tractor started and ran ... BUT would not idle and had no power.

Called my local dealer who was very helpful and he explained the engine stop switch function. I mentioned that the engine stop switch solenoid was VERY HOT. :confused3:

SO... I pulled the single lead out of the stop solenoid and discovered that with ignition on or off the lead carried about 10+ volts according to my multimeter. Also that solenoid was too hot to touch obviously from getting 10 plus volts as a steady diet. Looking for a short I unplugged most of the connectors I could find but still saw 10v at the solenoid. Finally removed the "dash" and pulled the ignition, after disassembling I found no fault with it. BTW .. don't dismantle the ignition switch ... it is very simple affair and very unlikely to be the source of a problem ... copper pins engage a copper plate that revolves with the key ... very simple arrangement ... and disassembly risks losing the 2 small ball bearings and three springs that are contained in the assembly.

Anyway this is when I saw the "Timer Relay" which the service manager had alerted me to. When I disconnected the timer relay connector ... the voltage at the solenoid disappeared! EUREKA.

I dismantled the Timer relay and it was stuck in the closed position. Rather that risk a recurrence I replaced both the timer relay and the stop switch solenoid.

So the CAUSE:

with faulty battery connectors (corrosion etc) the battery was cutting in and out which apparently resulted in the Timer Relay arcing/pitting and periodically sticking when it should have released - when closed like this the relay would still deliver current even with the IGNITION OFF. This in turn delivered power to the Stop Switch Solenoid that eventually cooked and SEIZED. Probably the flow of current didn't help my battery much and the constant complete discharge eventually nuked it too!

With the Stop Switch Solenoid cooked and seized as a result of the faulty Timer Relay ... if the solenoid was in the stop position... the tractor would not start... if the solenoid was in the half way position ... the tractor would start BUT would not stop when the key was turned off. Also when in the half way position ... while the engine would run ... it would not idle nor did it have any power, .....if you pushed the solenoid to open ... the machine ran fine (but as mentioned - with the timer relay closed there was still power cooking the solenoid) BUT would Not stop when ignition was turned off. You could turn the engine off by overpowering the seized solenoid and pushing the stop lever to the left BTW.

FWIW ... when the timer relay and the stop switch solenoid are working as they should... when you turn the tractor off you will hear a faint click about 20 seconds after shut down as the timer relay releases and cuts power to the solenoid ... this in turn allows the stop switch to return to the normal "start/run" position having completed its job of shutting down the engine.

Hope this helps folks with similar symptons.

AJP

rmorey · May 7, 2013

Wow multiple failures causing similar symptoms. Tough to find. Good job and thanks, this will help someone else, if nothing else, give them a few more options to check. :thumbsup:

k0ua · May 7, 2013

Thanks for posting, there are tons of complaints like this all the time. This surely will help others.

James K0UA

ritcheyvs · May 7, 2013

Good work and good information. There's no substitute for actual experience

For general information, at least three different stop solenoid schemes have been used. One (described here) applies power to shut off the motor. Another (newer, I think) applies power to allow the motor to run. The newest (I think) also applies power to run but uses a high current to engage the solenoid and then switches to a lower current (e.g. two separate wires to solenoid) to keep it latched. In all cases, the solenoid (or a spring with the solenoid disengaged) pushes the injection pump rack to the no-fuel-delivered position to shut off the engine.

The hidden fault inside the battery cable connection seems to be a common problem and has been mentioned several times on this site. The lesson here is that visual inspection is not good enough for battery cables. You need to use a meter or test by bypassing them with a jumper cable.

I disagree somewhat about the key switch. These switches will not fail in the "on" position but they can accumulate dirt and corrosion (especially if the tractor sits in the weather) and fail to deliver power when they should. Your point about caution during dis-assembly is well taken; it's easy to lose a critical part. But considering the cost (now $100) and lag time to get a replacement, I can't recommend against DIY dis assembly. Just be careful and do it in a clean indoor workspace (or inside a big baggie) so you don't lose anything and take a couple photos (cell phone quality) to remind you of the correct assembly orientation.

AJP · May 7, 2013

Well if you do take the ignition apart I think the photos recommended by Scott are an excellent idea. The ignition is (as most probably know) two components .. one component is the tumbler assy that accepts the key the back of which has a small flat bar protruding. The bar engages a slot in the second component which is a housing containing two ball bearings on springs on the circumference to provide positive detents at the various positions, a copper disc (with a coil spring exerting pressure) which is "embossed" in order to create raised "tracks" and a series of copper pins (each connected to a wire) that ride on the copper disc providing continuity depending on which pins engage "raised tracks" on the disc as it is rotated into the various positions. MUCH easier to understand when you are looking at it than to describe.

Anyway after my learning curve and going from nothing to a little more than I wanted to know (and practicing my infantry vocabulary - kids weren't around) the tractor worked fine ... EXCEPT NOW I couldn't get it out of low range!!! The air got blue again - and I think I may have actually bent the 1 inch steel bar on the transmission linkage that the high/low range selector is connected to, until I remembered the importance of using penetrating oil on the linkage... three good jets of PB Blaster ... and all was good with the world.

Despite this latest round of "highly emotional man against inanimate object" I remain pleased with the DK35 and think they are excellent value!! I would certainly purchase another (I also have a JD 455 and a JD 2520)

Coyote machine · May 8, 2013

I find after cleaning and making sure all battery connections and chassis and cables are in good working order I add the green and red colored felt washers available at any auto store, AND I spray the battery posts and cable ends with anti corrosion battery spray, which seems to eliminate corrosion from oxidation, since it virtually seals the components from atmospheric moisture.
For me this is a very effective solution to an annoying problem.

k0ua · May 8, 2013

I have never found anything better than No-ox-ID by Sanchem.. I have used this for over 30 years on every battery I have ever owned, and the end result is absolutely no corrosion ever on any battery in that time. I started using it when it was supplied to put on battery's for PBX's battery plants. I have no idea what is in it, and I sure don't have any relation to the manufacturer or distribitors, but I offer 30+ years of using this stuff without the slightest hint of corrosion.

Amazon.com: 2 ounce Tub Cb Ham Radio NO OX ID A-Special Conductive Grease ALL Antenna Metal: Everything Else

James K0UA

mrutkaus · May 9, 2013

Thanks! Thorough analysis!

BTW, here's cheaper source of the conductive grease:

2 Ounce Tub CB Ham Radio No Ox ID A Special Conductive Grease All Antenna Metal | eBay

Mike

Looking4new · May 11, 2013

For the Canadians....Dielectric grease from CT will work. I use it on my trailer connectors, too. Just put a goodly amount on the female connector and connect to the trailer plug. Works good.