CK25 Finally Won't Start - no power from switch to the solenoid.

[MTUser]

I was having intermittent no start problems, particularly on wet days. I thought that they were related to the switch because they could often be fixed by a spray of contact cleaner into the key slot. Finally the tractor would not start, all the lights come on the dash, the glow plug light would go out then turn the key and nothing. So I bought a new switch and installed it and have exactly the same problem. If I can use a tester correctly the starter solenoid is getting power from the battery, but the red wire that brings current from the switch is not supplying any current to close the relay. I checked my connections at the switch they seem good. What is my next step in troubleshooting?

 

[chemteck29]

It won't crank at all then? Sounds like a safety interlock issue. there are usually at least 3 safety switches on any given machine. One for the clutch pedal, one for the operators seat, and one for the P.T.O. The easiest thing a lot of people forget is the P.T.O. switch. If it's in the on position (for electric P.T. O. engagement) then the tractor will not crank. Like wise with a lever activated. basically if the P.T.O. is left on the engine won't crank. Next up would be the seat switch, more often then not this is a likely suspect. It's located under the seat and works off pressure on the seat when the operator sits down. It will /should only send power out when the operator sits down, but you should be able to operate the switch manually and check for power in and out with a standard test light or meter. Likewise on the clutch pedal same deal power in, but not out unless the clutch is pushed down. I'm not familiar with the CK's but if this is a shuttle shift or a geared machine you probably have a Neutral safety switch on the transmission as well. So the tractor will not crank if it's not in Neutral. You can test all of these switches with either a test light or a meter. Hope this helps Chemteck

 

[ritcheyvs]

Given you have a HST model, you probably have a switch or rheostat on the L-M-H-N range selector that prevents cranking unless in neutral. I don't have data on your exact model but some use a rheostat on the range selector to signal the range to electronics that light indicators on the instrument panel and also lock out the starter unless in neutral. My DK doesn't have a seat switch but I many tractors do have a switch (or electronics) to lock out the starter id the PTO is engaged. Finally, there is a relay that actually controls the power to the starter solenoid (small wire) which could be the problem. Maybe someone on this list has a CH25 HST schematic. I don't.

 

[kiotiken]

I had a very similar issue on my JD 955 and it ended up being the positive batt. cable. It looked fine, but when the insulation was pulled back, it was badly corroded. I would get the same thing, power to the switch and dash, but nothing as soon as you turned the key. Took forever to figure out, but an easy fix.

 

[ritcheyvs]

I had a very similar issue on my JD 955 and it ended up being the positive batt. cable. It looked fine, but when the insulation was pulled back, it was badly corroded. I would get the same thing, power to the switch and dash, but nothing as soon as you turned the key. Took forever to figure out, but an easy fix.

The problem Ken mentioned has happened many times, according to reports here. Hook your voltmeter between ground and the big terminal on the starter and watch the meter *WHILE* someone turns and holds the key in the crank/start position. If it continues to read a good 12+ volts the battery and cables are OK. If the voltage dives, check the voltage at the battery terminals when the switch is in the crank position. If the battery voltage is good but the starter voltage is bad you have one or more bad connections between the battery and the engine. Many of the previously-reported cable problems were not visible: the cable looked fine but was corroded internally under the insulation.

My generic advice for electrical problems is to isolate the real problem with a meter and a schematic before you start swapping parts.

 

[MTUser]

Thank you for all suggestions. I took to heart the idea that this problem looked like a safety lock out problem and tried to figure out where it might be. Reading over the manual carefully, and getting a second opinion from a neighbor who ones a John Deere, I came to the conclusion that the CK25 does not have a seat lock out nor a neutral lock out, so it had to be the clutch pedal fully depressed lock out.

I took the grey cowling off again and checked the switch with a ohm meter by disconnecting it. When 90% depressed it went from infinite resistance to something like 50 ohms, so it had not gone bad, but maybe it was not adjusted properly. When I checked it looked like it was adjusted correctly. So I almost gave up in dispair. What could be wrong? I gave the tractor one more try and it started! I didn't turn it off for 5 minutes in case it would not start again.

The tractor did start again, and I played around with trying to start it with the clutch only partly depressed. It won't start unless the pedal is pressed almost all the way. But I was pressing it hard before when it would not start. My conclusion is that something was wrong with connection to the clutch lock out switch. When I disconnected it to check it and re-connected it, that made a good connection and the tractor could start. Very frustrating. But I celebrated by grading the driveway.

 

[chemteck29]

Thank you for all suggestions. I took to heart the idea that this problem looked like a safety lock out problem and tried to figure out where it might be. Reading over the manual carefully, and getting a second opinion from a neighbor who ones a John Deere, I came to the conclusion that the CK25 does not have a seat lock out nor a neutral lock out, so it had to be the clutch pedal fully depressed lock out.

I took the grey cowling off again and checked the switch with a ohm meter by disconnecting it. When 90% depressed it went from infinite resistance to something like 50 ohms, so it had not gone bad, but maybe it was not adjusted properly. When I checked it looked like it was adjusted correctly. So I almost gave up in dispair. What could be wrong? I gave the tractor one more try and it started! I didn't turn it off for 5 minutes in case it would not start again.

The tractor did start again, and I played around with trying to start it with the clutch only partly depressed. It won't start unless the pedal is pressed almost all the way. But I was pressing it hard before when it would not start. My conclusion is that something was wrong with connection to the clutch lock out switch. When I disconnected it to check it and re-connected it, that made a good connection and the tractor could start. Very frustrating. But I celebrated by grading the driveway.

Glad you got it going!

 

[ritcheyvs]

MTUser: I'm confused do you have a gear transmission with a clutch or an "automatic" HST transmission? By the way, the clutch interlock switch should read near zero ohms with the clutch pedal full down; so the 50 ohm reading is suspicious. It could just be the zero adjustment on tour meter or it could be a wonky switch.

 

[murphy1244]

good job!

 

[MTUser]

I may not be saying this correctly because I am not a tractor wiz by any stretch of the imagination. But I have a CK25 with HST, a pedal on the floor that I depress to go back and forward. It also has a clutch pedal that I depress to switch ranges, hi, medium and low.

MTUser: I'm confused do you have a gear transmission with a clutch or an "automatic" HST transmission? By the way, the clutch interlock switch should read near zero ohms with the clutch pedal full down; so the 50 ohm reading is suspicious. It could just be the zero adjustment on tour meter or it could be a wonky switch.