CK25 strange death symptoms

[ERE]

My CK25 HST is dead in the middle of the pasture and I can't do any work on it tonight so I thought I'd post the strange symptoms in hopes that someone would have seen something similar and save me some trouble shooting time tomorrow.

I was pulling some shrubs with a log chain and when I pulled the throttle lever down idle to get off and unhook the chain the engine just kept going down and stopped instead of stopping at idle. I tried to restart and it wouldn't. I turned the ignition off to think about it while I unhooked the chain. When I got back on it restarted normally. Since I had only one more shrub to pull I kept going instead of doing the smart thing and coming to where the tools are. On the last shrub it stopped again the same way and only after turning the ignition switch full off did it restart. I did one last pull of the throttle to idle at the brush pile before going in for the day, and it died again, but this time it would not restart even after turning the ignition off.

So, any ideas? Two things seem strange to me. First that it didn't stop until I pulled the throttle lever down, and second that it wouldn't restart until I turned the ignition full off. Seems like there are clues there but they aren't doing anything for my brain right now.

 

[ritcheyvs]

How long did it sit with the switch off before it would restart? Immediately or after many minutes? Did it run normally at the higher RPM or did it seem to lack power?

 

[ERE]

The first time, I probably had it off for 4 minutes. The next two times, I tried it immediately and it started. (unitl the last time). It ran normally at high rpm after it started. I pulled one more shrub (big), and towed it up a pretty steep slope.

 

[Soundguy]

diesels that won't run always make me think fuel... ones that have key start and key off always make me want to look at fuel stop solenoids/ fuel kill at the IP.

check those 2 things.

( is it making smoke when you try to start? if no smoke.. then no fuel... )

 

[ERE]

I will definitely be checking the solenoid tomorrow. The strange part is that it always died when I pulled the throttle lever back - I wasn't touching the key. I has plenty of fuel in the tank. IP may be a problem.

 

[Soundguy]

fuel in the tank is only part of the equation... there is a delivery system. stoppage anywhere befor ethe tip of the injector creates a run problem.

heck.. blocked leak lines will too.. though I don't think that is yours..

Diesels do specific thing that give you clues.

if you see one smoking.. check the air filter.

if you idle one around 99% of the time it may slobber..

an engine that fails to make rpm with addition of throttle and is not loaded or lugging, is usually fuel related.

no smoke on startup.. check fuel stoppages.. fuel kill and fuel solenoids.. especially on key-off machines.

check linkages at pump too.. especially the throttle linkages and any springs and stops or returns.

 

[Soundguy]

ps this includes wireing , switches, and connectors associated with the fuel system.. pumps and solenoids.. etc.

 

[ritcheyvs]

Do check the easy stuff first, but (and I hate to say it) I suspect the injection pump (IP) rack is getting stuck in the fuel-off position, which is where it sits as the RPM decreases to idle. But then it sticks there even as the RPM goes below idle (instead of moving to inject enough fuel to maintain idle.) Then (I theorize) cycling the stop solenoid jars the rack enough to break it free (sometimes). IP replacement is not difficult but it is expensive (like $1K). Any chance your tractor is still under warranty? If so, get Kioti to fix it.

Once you have exhausted other (easier, cheaper) possibble causes, you can check the IP rack for free movement by removing the oil fill plate on the right front side of the engine block. This may also unstick your IP so you can get it back to the barn or your dealer's trailer. If your IP is defective, a new replacement may be slightly cheaper from a Bobcat dealer or (better yet) you may find a local Diesel shop that will replace broken gears (typical failure mode) for a fraction of the cost of a new IP. These gears are 180 degrees symmetrical and some owners "fixed" their IPs simply by rotating the bad gear 180 degrees so the broken teeth don't engage the rack. That (of course) requires the ability to disassemble and reassemble the IP. If you do that, the plungers and cylinders are matched sets; don't mix them up.

I hope you find a fast and cheap fix, but if the IP seems to be the problem you can find other pack experience at:
http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/Kioti_IP_Data

 

[ERE]

Lots of ideas to begin the day with. Thanks. I'll let you know what I find.

 

[Soundguy]

best of luck for a cheap-er/ez fix