Mowing PTO won't disengage when using brush hog

   / PTO won't disengage when using brush hog #1  

fsrtraveler

New member
Joined
Sep 16, 2014
Messages
7
Location
Regina, NM
Tractor
Kioti CK20s
This question is for any owner of a Kioti CK20S manual tractor. I own a 2013 CK20s manual tractor. Not HST. When I connect a brush hog to the PTO all works correctly, I let out the clutch, the tractor begins to move forward and the mower and pto spin up as expected. When I want to stop, I press the main tractor clutch fully down and the tractor will not stop moving forward, the PTO will not disengage and the tractor continues to move forward until the mower quits turning. I can force the tractor and mower to stop by using great force on the brake. This is dangerous because even with using the tractor brake it takes 4 - 6 feet to stop the tractor and mower. Both the tractor and mower stop by pressing the brake with enough force applied. I cannot use the PTO shifting lever to take the PTO out of gear because it grinds and will not shift the PTO out of gear until the mower completely quits turning. I also cannot put the tractor in Neutral until the mower completely quits turning because again the main transmission will grind. Once the mower stops turning and I take the PTO out of gear with the PTO shift lever everything is back to normal except the PTO is disengaged and I cannot use my mower without repeating the same situation of having to stop the tractor and mower with the brake.

I also have two other tractors and both of them will roll to a stop quickly while mowing whenever I press in the main tractor clutch and the mower keeps spinning. Never have these other tractors been forced forward by the momentum of the brush hog and never have I been forced to use the brake to stop both the mower and tractor, just pushing in the main clutch will allow the tractor to roll to a stop in short order.

I have a workshop manual for this model of tractor and it shows an overrunning clutch built into the transmission for the PTO which I believe is supposed to disengage the PTO immediately when the main tractor clutch is depressed and I am thinking it is stuck and does not release correctly. My question to any CK20S manual transmission owner that has used a Brush or Bush Hog with your tractor is this the way your tractor works. When you push in the main clutch on your tractor do you have to force the mower to stop by using the brake and does your tractor continue to move forward from the flywheel effect of your brush hog the mower?
 
   / PTO won't disengage when using brush hog #2  
I don't have this style tractor but it certainly sounds like the over-run clutch is hung up/stuck. Two possible solutions:
1. Take pto assembly out and repair it,
2. Buy an external PTO Over-run Clutch adapter that fastens on the existing PTO shaft.
 
   / PTO won't disengage when using brush hog #3  
This question is for any owner of a Kioti CK20S manual tractor. I own a 2013 CK20s manual tractor. Not HST. When I connect a brush hog to the PTO all works correctly, I let out the clutch, the tractor begins to move forward and the mower and pto spin up as expected. When I want to stop, I press the main tractor clutch fully down and the tractor will not stop moving forward, the PTO will not disengage and the tractor continues to move forward until the mower quits turning. I can force the tractor and mower to stop by using great force on the brake. This is dangerous because even with using the tractor brake it takes 4 - 6 feet to stop the tractor and mower. Both the tractor and mower stop by pressing the brake with enough force applied. I cannot use the PTO shifting lever to take the PTO out of gear because it grinds and will not shift the PTO out of gear until the mower completely quits turning. I also cannot put the tractor in Neutral until the mower completely quits turning because again the main transmission will grind. Once the mower stops turning and I take the PTO out of gear with the PTO shift lever everything is back to normal except the PTO is disengaged and I cannot use my mower without repeating the same situation of having to stop the tractor and mower with the brake.

I also have two other tractors and both of them will roll to a stop quickly while mowing whenever I press in the main tractor clutch and the mower keeps spinning. Never have these other tractors been forced forward by the momentum of the brush hog and never have I been forced to use the brake to stop both the mower and tractor, just pushing in the main clutch will allow the tractor to roll to a stop in short order.

I have a workshop manual for this model of tractor and it shows an overrunning clutch built into the transmission for the PTO which I believe is supposed to disengage the PTO immediately when the main tractor clutch is depressed and I am thinking it is stuck and does not release correctly. My question to any CK20S manual transmission owner that has used a Brush or Bush Hog with your tractor is this the way your tractor works. When you push in the main clutch on your tractor do you have to force the mower to stop by using the brake and does your tractor continue to move forward from the flywheel effect of your brush hog the mower?

I cannot help much, as I don't have and have never operated a CK20S, but like you, I believe the overrunning clutch should operate as advertized, but since it is not operating, it is broken. Hopefully other CK20S owners will chime in here, confirm this.
 
   / PTO won't disengage when using brush hog #4  
i don't have a clue about about your tractor.

as others noted over running clutch would be first thing came to mind, before even reading rest of your post.

some tractors have a 2 stage clutch, half way down it disconnects drive train, all the way down disconnects PTO if i remember correctly. double check to see if there are any sensors on the clutch pedal, maybe sensor bad or a cable needs to be adjusted.

beyond checking of sensor/cable adjustments, i would suspect over-running clutch malfunction/stuck.

if ya end up going with an external over running clutch, that fits between rear of tractor pto stub, and the shaft going down to implement, you will need to recheck correct PTO shaft lengths. so you do not inadvertently bottom out the PTO shaft into itself and end up messing more up. ((it is normal to buy a longer PTO shaft, and then most likely need to cut it down to correct length for a specific tractor))

most rotatory cutters (bush hogs = brand name) have a "slip clutch" on them. and they do require maintenance to properly set them. including a burn in, when you buy them new. if you have not done so. you may have nailed a rock, stump, tree limb, etc... and instead of slip clutch on the rotatory cutter doing it's job slipping, the impact shock went back into your tractor and damaged something.

Tractor Attachments And Skid Steer Attachments For Any Tractor Or Skid Steer has video's showing/describing how to check and adjust PTO shafts, and adjust slip clutches.
 
   / PTO won't disengage when using brush hog #5  
That's the way old tractors worked before Live PTO. That was about 40 years ago ! Sounds like something s wrong !
 
   / PTO won't disengage when using brush hog #6  
My buddy has the same tractor and he experienced the same problem until he put on an external over run clutch. This fixed the problem. Makes me think that there is no internal over run clutch?
 
   / PTO won't disengage when using brush hog
  • Thread Starter
#7  
My buddy has the same tractor and he experienced the same problem until he put on an external over run clutch. This fixed the problem. Makes me think that there is no internal over run clutch?


Thank you for your input, this is what I was looking for, some first hand info. Will begin looking for an external overrunning clutch that will fit this tractor.
 
   / PTO won't disengage when using brush hog #8  

There are three basic types of PTO control on a farm tractor:

Transmission
The simpliest, and earliest, form of PTO is the transmission PTO. The PTO shaft is directly connected to the tractor's transmission. The PTO is only working when the tractor's clutch is relased, so if you take the tractor out of gear while slowing down the PTO will stop working. This is a disadvantage in applications such as mowing.

An overrunning clutch is often needed with a transmission PTO. Without it, the driven equipment (such as mower blades) will put a force on the PTO shaft, and then the transmssion, due to inertia. The equipment will "drive" the tractor, and you will still move after using the tractor's transmission clutch. An overrunning clutch prevents this from happening by allowing the PTO shaft to freely spin in one direction. In more recent models, this is built into the tractor. In older tractors, it is an extra piece of equipment mounted on the PTO shaft.
Live (two-stage clutch)
A live PTO works with the use of a two-stage clutch. Pressing the clutch half-way will disengage the transmission while pressing it fully will disengage the transmission and the PTO. This allows the operator to slow down or change gears while the PTO is still operating.
Independent
An independent PTO means that the PTO shaft is controlled with a separate clutch. As with a live PTO, this allows for full control over the tractor while separately controlling the PTO. There are two major types of independent PTO; mechanical and hydraulic. A mechanical-independent PTO uses a separate on-off selector, in addition to the PTO control lever. Often the tractor must be stopped or off to change this selector position. A hydraulic-independent PTO uses a single selector.



That said, I still would have thought that the transmission type PTO in the CK20S would have had a built in overrunning clutch.. The CK20HST has an independent PTO.
 
   / PTO won't disengage when using brush hog #9  
I own a 2012 CK20S manual transmission. When I push the clutch while brush cutting my tractor goes click, click, click, etc. It has a PTO clutch override built into the tractor. It sound as if something is wrong with yours. According to my manual, all CK20S have the override clutch. My 2 cents. Get it fixed. By adding a PTO override clutch to the tractor, you are adding length to the shaft which puts much pressure on the bearings. This will cause the bearings to fail and the seals to leak prematurely. :thumbsup:
 
   / PTO won't disengage when using brush hog #10  
I own a 2012 CK20S manual transmission. When I push the clutch while brush cutting my tractor goes click, click, click, etc. It has a PTO clutch override built into the tractor. It sound as if something is wrong with yours. According to my manual, all CK20S have the override clutch.

That is exactly what I would have thought. My old B7500 manual transmission had a transmission type PTO and it did exactly what you describe when swapping gears/directions. You got a click,click, click sound that matched the speed of the blades in the rotary cutter as it wound down. And of course as soon as you engaged the clutch it spun up the mower blades.
 
 
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