DK40HST Won't Start.

[Nick61]

I always hear the Click, cold, warm it doesn't matter. the no start is a no crank, wont turn over, nothing. I do hear the loud click. All the parts were brand new. They shipped them to me directly from Kioti. The new key switch i guess is the old style that they sent me. The one that came with my tractor was a sealed unit, there is no way to take it apart. The new switch that they sent me can be taken apart. the temp gauge operates as it should. Thanks for the help. I am going to call the dealer today and see about taking it to them after the 1st of the year. They are a couple of hours away.

Nick

 

[Nick61]

As for trying the range selector to another neutral position? Yes I have tried both. As I hold the key in the start position I have moved the range selector to all positions and nothing changes. Thanks.
Nick

 

[Coyote machine]

Nick, Ritcheyvs and I have been bouncing another idea around regarding when the battery light does NOT come on, when the tractor is up to temperature. Try this test and see what the results are. When you tractor is up to temp and won't crank, and the battery light does NOT light, try removing the connector to the display cluster located on the firewall. It's the black box, similar to the cruise module, not a relay size.
We're thinking along the lines of tricking the tractor into thinking it's off, when it may be thinking it's running, when in fact we know it's not. Somewhat hard to explain, but it makes sense to exhaust all possibilities before going to the dealer. Post back results, please.

 

[Nick61]

Nick, Ritcheyvs and I have been bouncing another idea around regarding when the battery light does NOT come on, when the tractor is up to temperature. Try this test and see what the results are. When you tractor is up to temp and won't crank, and the battery light does NOT light, try removing the connector to the display cluster located on the firewall. It's the black box, similar to the cruise module, not a relay size.
We're thinking along the lines of tricking the tractor into thinking it's off, when it may be thinking it's running, when in fact we know it's not. Somewhat hard to explain, but it makes sense to exhaust all possibilities before going to the dealer. Post back results, please.

I will try it. Yesterday it stopped raining for a few hours, so I got her out and ran her around for a while and I couldn't get her to no crank. I am at work for 4 days now. Sunday I will give it another shot. Thanks alot for the help!

Nick

 

[Nick61]

Nick, Ritcheyvs and I have been bouncing another idea around regarding when the battery light does NOT come on, when the tractor is up to temperature. Try this test and see what the results are. When you tractor is up to temp and won't crank, and the battery light does NOT light, try removing the connector to the display cluster located on the firewall. It's the black box, similar to the cruise module, not a relay size.
We're thinking along the lines of tricking the tractor into thinking it's off, when it may be thinking it's running, when in fact we know it's not. Somewhat hard to explain, but it makes sense to exhaust all possibilities before going to the dealer. Post back results, please.

Ok, Ran it today for a few hours. The no crank reared it's ugly head after an hour. I took a tester and checked the two connectors at the alternator with the key switch on. 2.75 on the top connector and 9.75 on the lower connector. Both contacts are in one connector just saying top and bottom for reference to where they are on the alternator. Funny 9.75? I then checked the battery and got the same reading. I think that is a bit low. But, I disconnect the plug from the start solenoid stick my jumper wire in and it starts right up.
I am thinking, is there something that wont let the engine start if it reads a low voltage? also no battery light on the dash either.

Thanks,
Nick

 

[ritcheyvs]

Ok, Ran it today for a few hours. The no crank reared it's ugly head after an hour. I took a tester and checked the two connectors at the alternator with the key switch on. 2.75 on the top connector and 9.75 on the lower connector. Both contacts are in one connector just saying top and bottom for reference to where they are on the alternator. Funny 9.75? I then checked the battery and got the same reading. I think that is a bit low. But, I disconnect the plug from the start solenoid stick my jumper wire in and it starts right up.
I am thinking, is there something that wont let the engine start if it reads a low voltage? also no battery light on the dash either.

Thanks,
Nick

Wow I didn't expect that. I need to do some more head scratching. You may be right about a low voltage threshold that disables the start logic. There is no way to know what all goes on inside those black boxes.

Just so we undwerstand, exactly where was the 9.75v battery voltage actually measured? Was it at the actual battery studs/terminals, the connectors that clamp to the battery terminals, or somewhere else?

The 2.75v sounds right, the book says it should be less than 3.0v. The 9.75v is a real puzzle. If this was only at the alternator connector, there would be several possible explanations. But 9.75v at the battery is very odd, even with the glow plugs drawing normal current, With the instrument panel only getting 9.75v, it's quite likely the battery light would not be visible in daylight because there would only be about 6v across the 12v bulb (considering the diode).

Here are two more diagnostics you can try next time it won't crank. First, (1) pull the connector from the glow relay and then try to crank it. The thought here is that a glow plug could be pulling too much current and pulling down the battery voltage. Then (2) reconnect the glow relay and (with the switch still on) measure the battery voltage; then turn the key switch off and measure the battery voltage again. If the battery voltage is low, wait a few minutes and measure it again to see if it recovers.

There are only two things that I can think of that would account for a true low voltage at the battery: a big current draw or a bad battery. There is a 60 amp fuse that should not allow an excessively big current, I wouldn't think. So maybe it's really just a battery that loses a cell when it gets hot but still has enough juice to run the starter. But I don't think we know enough to start replacing parts (on your nickel) unless you just happen to have a spare battery handy. Even then do the above tests first so you can be sure when it's really fixed.

Supplemental: One more thing, before you even try to start it cold, measure the battery voltage for reference.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Charge your battery and then load test it.

Those with a wiring diagram: is the alternator computer controlled? Sounds like one bad diode in the voltage regulator when it gets hot (likely) or a potential winding getting an open when hot.

Those with the service manual: what is the full field test procedure? Normally there is a little tang or something you can hook known-good battery voltage up to bypassing the voltage regulator in order to peg out the fun meter @ 2000 rpm or whatever the spec is.

 

[Nick61]

I got the 9.75 at the alternator and on the battery post. I checked the battery just to see if there was a difference. I was hoping there was.

Nick

 

[k0ua]

I got the 9.75 at the alternator and on the battery post. I checked the battery just to see if there was a difference. I was hoping there was.

Nick

Do you trust your meter?.. go to your car and measure your battery right on the posts. it should be about 12.6 give or take a little bit. and about 14 when the vehicle is running, give or take a bit. If you are measuring 9.75 volts on your battery, either you have one heck of a drain, something north of 100 amps, or you have a intermittently defective battery. Do you have a battery you can take out of another vehicle to put in for a test? Either your meter is broken or your battery is broken.

 

[Nick61]

wouldn't the battery at 9.75 have a hard time cranking the motor over? When I use the jumper wire it doesn't even hesitate starting. No slow crank, turns over like the battery is at 12 or 13. Good idea to check the volt meter. It's only a year old but that doesn't mean anything now days.
I can take a battery out of my truck and try that.
Nick.