CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours

   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours #1  

CenTex Chris

Silver Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
108
Tractor
2009 Kioti CK35 HST and 1947 Ford 2N
(Too long, didn't read: The title says it all. Now I need to get an idea of an "as is" sale value. Check out the pics!)

"I hope you're sitting down," the mechanic said over the phone. "It's pretty bad. You need to come see this."

My neighbor had borrowed my tractor to spread several truck loads of gravel on our private road. It's a 2010 Kioti CK35 HST with 408 hours, on which I'm about to make my final payment. When he brought it back, I knew something was wrong right away. The engine was making a very loud clatter and putting out a lot of blue smoke. "I thought it sounded funny," he said. "What's wrong with it?"

Good question. It was due for an oil change anyway so I took it to the dealer where I had bought it and who's done all the service on it, at 50, 100, 200 and 300 hours. The service manager said they were pretty busy but that they'd get to it within ten days. Those days came and went, and a week later -- 17 days after I dropped it off -- I still hadn't heard from them, so I went back there with my trailer. Sure enough, not only had they not even looked at it, but they had moved it to the very back of their lot, obviously putting new work in ahead of me. Well, I probably should have known better. This particular outfit just sells tractors on the side and their main business comes from service contracts with the fire department, the school district and fleet trucking operations. I'm just one guy with one tractor, so of course I got back-burnered. No hard feelings... it is what it is. Time to go elsewhere. They had to move a lot of stuff around in order to get my tractor out. Loaded up and left with "no work performed" on the ticket.

I found an authorized Kioti mechanic about an hour away from me. He promised I'd be first in line, so I took it to him. Two days later he called and said "you've gotta come see this for yourself." When I got there, he handed me an ice-cold beer and said I was going to need it, because I had the worst kind of trouble: an engine that needs a rebuild or replacement, either way about $8,000 out the door, according to him.

Anyway, take a look at the photos and behold the contents of the oil pan. I crawled up under the tractor and took some pics of the shattered #2 piston which shows that one side of the shroud is completely eviscerated and who knows what else.

The mechanic said he could find a replacement engine block and install it, but cautioned that he wouldn't do that if he were me. I agreed. The tractor's been out of warranty for a year, the dealer wasn't much help and I'm totally on my own. I could sink a bunch of money into it... wait. No, I can't. I can't sink a bunch of money into it. So I brought it home. It's still tied down on the trailer. Surprisingly, the tractor still starts and runs -- loudly and smokingly -- and it can move under its own power. But it's probably just a short matter of time before that engine locks up completely. At any rate, it's not going to do any more work around here.

Sadly, I've got no real alternative but to let go of The Great Pumpkin. It was good while it lasted, which was 400 hours. Somebody else can rebuild or replace that engine, because it's not going to be me. At this point, if you've made it this far through my post, I've got a couple of questions for the knowledgeable Kioti folks in this group:

1. Any idea what this tractor might be worth, "as is?" It has a KL130 loader and bucket which is in fine shape. I'd prefer to keep it all together, tractor with loader and bucket.

2. Do you think I can find a buyer? I mean, who would want it? I plan to list it here, and Ebay and locally on CraigsList with a full description of its current condition. It's in Central Texas.

If anyone can help me establish a realistic and fair value, I'd be most grateful. Thanks in advance,


IMG_0132rev1.jpgIMG_0154rev1.jpgIMG_0160rev1.jpg
 
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   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours #2  
Wow! That's terrible. I'm sorry for your pain and I would be tempted to blame it on misuse by the neighbor, but in all honesty that engine looks clean, i.e. no discoloration, no baked on oil and there are some metal objects in that crankcase that are not part of a piston. Definitely a mfg defect. Personally, I'd get more photos and get written opinions from certified mechanics and threaten a lawsuit.
 
   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours #3  
1. Any idea what this tractor might be worth, "as is?" It has a KL130 loader and bucket which is in fine shape. I'd prefer to keep it all together, tractor with loader and bucket.

2. Do you think I can find a buyer? I mean, who would want it? I plan to list it here, and Ebay and locally on CraigsList with a full description of its current condition. It's in Central Texas.

Sorry to hear of this tragedy. I imagine your neighbor feels pretty bad, too.

As for its worth, that's a hard one. Speaking as a rebuilder who buys broken tractors, it is certainly
sellable, but not worth a lot. The problem is that your engine has not been around a long
time, so finding a used one will be hard. It is possible that the block is reusable, however. Have
you gotten a quotation from Kioti for a short block? Even if you get a quotation, they may have
to get one from Korea, and that could take a while. Kioti may only sell that engine as
"whole goods".

My guess in the current mkt here in CA, it would sell for possibly as high as $3500-4000. I do not
know the TX market. I would seriously consider buying your machine if it was local. I would
factor in the need for a whole new short block.
 
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   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours #4  
It could be something as simple as a blown piston without much other damage. Ether used at start? Don't give up on without trying to see really how much damage$.
 
   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours #5  
It could be something as simple as a blown piston without much other damage. Ether used at start? Don't give up on without trying to see really how much damage$.

Doubt ether would cause that. It appears to be just the skirt that shattered and the lower ring. If ether damaged it the top of the piston would have failed and it would not have started at all. Never seen one do that.
 
   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours #6  
Doubt ether would cause that. It appears to be just the skirt that shattered and
the lower ring. If ether damaged it the top of the piston would have failed and it would not have started at
all. Never seen one do that.

I have never seen that either. Seems to be a rare defect in the manufacture of the piston. But,
post-mortem analysis is needed to confirm that.

In terms of repair, it is quite likely that the failed piston damaged the cylinder bore, which requires
an oversize bore of all 3 holes, and 3 new O/S pistons. Still it is likely fixable and the cost will be
mostly labor.
 
   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours #7  
I have never seen that either. Seems to be a rare defect in the manufacture of the piston. But,
post-mortem analysis is needed to confirm that.

In terms of repair, it is quite likely that the failed piston damaged the cylinder bore, which requires
an oversize bore of all 3 holes, and 3 new O/S pistons. Still it is likely fixable and the cost will be
mostly labor.

What I at first thought was drill shavings I now believe is the center piece of a three piece oil ring. I've seen them on motorcycles, but didn't know they were using them in tractors. Post-mortem analysis should center around finding all three pieces (or remnants) of that oil ring. If one was left out during assembly there would be a constant hammering of only a few microns but enough to weaken the piston over time. My bet is on this theory. If it can be proven and documented I'd do everything possible to get a new motor from Kioti.
 
   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours #8  
Good analysis of the oil ring(s). It matches the symptoms of still running with a lot of piston slap and without the oil ring(s) lots of smoke.
 
   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours
  • Thread Starter
#9  
Post-mortem analysis should center around finding all three pieces (or remnants) of that oil ring. If one was left out during assembly there would be a constant hammering of only a few microns but enough to weaken the piston over time. My bet is on this theory. If it can be proven and documented I'd do everything possible to get a new motor from Kioti.

Many thanks for your input. I'm afraid that getting a new motor from Kioti -- or for that matter getting Kioti involved in this at all -- would require my dealer going to bat for me. Unfortunately I don't have that option. My dealer left me hanging with this, as described in my first post. I'm pretty much a Kioti orphan now as a result.
 
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   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours #10  
That's terrible luck. I would me trying to press the dealer or mfg.

I know its out of warranty, but their engines certainly should last more than 400 hrs. If for nothing else, I would think they would want to analyze just what went wrong so soon
 
 
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