DK45C won't start....

[LOGDOG5375]

Hello All...

Wondering if some of you might be able to shed some light on an issue that just presented itself with my Kioti DK45C. I believe it's a 2004 model.

I came in last night after bush hogging because of a thunderstorm. Tractor was running great. Got a lot done. But this morning, I go out to start it up..... turn the ignition key....and there's nothing. Flat as a pancake. I did have dash lights momentarily, and the fan on the a/c vents came on briefly. Then all the lights on the dash went off, fan went off. Just nothing. I checked anything and everything that I might have left on overnight to draw power. Everything was in the off position. I thought maybe I had drained the battery down accidentally.

So I drag out the jumper cables, hook them up to my F350 and let it try to charge. After about 45 minutes, the dash light would come on if I turned the key to the on position, and I could get just a mild groan from the starter trying to turn over. I took a break, read a bunch of threads on this forum about others having similar issues, and decided to pull the battery and take it down to O'Reilly's to put on the tester. So I did that. Tester said the battery was good, and had 1/4 of it's life left. I was just over warranty expiration, so they said take it home and try it. If it didn't perform, bring it back and they'd see if they could warranty it. So I brought it home, re-connected to my cables, which were all nice and clean. Still nothing. No dash lights, nothing at all. Silence. So, I take the battery back. O'Reilly's decides not to warranty it because it was just over 19 months old, on an 18 month warranty. Okay..... no problem. I buy a new battery, bring it home. Hook it up. Nothing......... total silence, no lights, no clicking.... nothing.

Hmmmm.... so then I wondered if maybe it was the 60 amp fuse that is on the left side of the tractor (Operator's left if sitting in the driver's seat.). Same side as the solenoid and alternator. 60 amp fuse, 32 volts I believe. I've had it go out in the past and it shuts everything down. So I pull off the electrical tape wrap surrounding it and look at it. It appears to be fine and intact.

Earlier in the process, I should mention that while inspecting connections, I noticed the "PREAHEATER CONTROLLER / PART NO. T4620-69054" was loose and had dropped down out of it's holster/socket if you know what I'm referencing. I pushed it back up into place.... and then later pulled it out, and blew the dust off the circuit board. It was covered in dust. Once clean, I re-inserted it back into it's socket.

So, other things I've made sure of..... shuttle shift is in neutral, clutch depressed and parking brake engaged when turning the key. Electronic PTO switches are disengaged. There have been no other problems leading into this, outside of my shuttle shifter wanting to stick in forward this last week. After reading some threads here on the forum, I lubed each of the places it passes through between the dash and the transmission housing and that has helped a lot. Thank you to those of you who posted on this forum in the past on that issue.

The dealer that used to service my machine 45 miles away, lost or abandoned their Kioti franchise. So the nearest dealer to me is 2 hours N, S, or West. Would love to be able to figure this out and not have to winch the tractor up on a trailer and make a couple 4 hour round trips to drop it off and then pick it up.

Can any of you who are familiar with my machine offer suggestions on what to check or do, to bring my DK45C back to life? I'm thinking it must be either a fuse or safety switch maybe.... for it to be such a sudden outage. Thank you in advance for your suggestions.

 

[RandyT]

Have you checked and cleaned the negative battery cable where it connect to the frame. Seems like that have been a problem in the past.

 

[LOGDOG5375]

Hi RANDYT,

Thanks for the reply. I just ran out to the tractor with a flashlight after seeing your post and thought I'd take a look. The connection at the frame where the ground is connected is dirty, and could use a good cleaning. I also notice that the lead on the ground is pretty tight. Not much slack at all. In the morning, I'm going to see if I can get a new lead with a little more length, and replace both positive and negative terminals for good measure, as well as clean up the mount at the frame. I read a similar post of mine from a couple years back that ended up being the battery terminals that needed replacing. Even thought they look good, it's not that expensive to just swap them for good measure.

I did a quick little test tonight by flash light. After looking at that negative ground wire and wiggling it, I thought, "I'm going to see if the radio will come on.... because it'll come on without the key in the ignition even. Just to see if there's juice flowing anywhere." Sure enough.... radio came on. Playing just fine.... and then it started blinking on and off. I got out of the cab and took a pair of needle nose pliers and tapped the negative ground connections, and I heard the radio come back on. So that tells me, there's something wrong on that negative/ground side. I'm not sure if it totally explains the non-starting problem yet. But it just might. I should know by noon tomorrow. I'll check back in and post the results.

 

[Coyote machine]

For sure verify there is NO corrosion in the cable near the frame bolt by cutting the sheathing back for a couple of inches and inspecting it. Also, make absolutely sure the connections at BOTH battery posts are clean and tight. And move the negative cable around some and see if it makes any difference.
I'm not familiar with the earlier than my DK-40 so I'm throwing out some ideas that may not apply to your model year. Does it have cruise control? If it does, on the left side under the open station they MAY be a electrical 'junction' box that a bunch of connections go into.

If you take your jumper cable and go directly from the negative battery post to the frame ground- anything?
Also try from the battery positive directly to the starter solenoid small tab ONLY after making sure the tractor is in neutral, the wheels are chocked and it CANNOT move if it were to start. When you are about to touch the solenoid's tab with a hot wire directly from the battery, put teh key switch to 'on' position.
Report back findings so far.
Also check the fuses, all of them, to see if any are loose or again, corrosion present?
There are also starter relays, injection pump stop solenoids, etc., but you're not there yet since nothing is happening so far.
Don't forget to look for rat or mice evidence/chewed wires, etc.

 

[ritcheyvs]

I would guess a bad battery cable/poor cable connection or a faulty key switch. But try to isolate the real problem vs swapping parts. If the emergency flashers still work OK, check out the switch. The flashers are about the only thing not run through the switch.

If the flashers don't work either, check out the battery. Get a volt meter ( any meter will be fine) and measure the voltage across the battery terminals when you try to crank the engine; this will probably require a helper to work the switch or hold the probes on the battery POSTS (not the the cable clamp).

If the battery checks OK (voltage doesn't go below, say, 11 volts), check each cable. Do this by connecting a voltmeter between a negative battery post and the engine block (bare metal) and try to crank. If that cable is OK you should see little or no voltage (much less than 1 volt). Do the same test between the positive post and the terminal where the cable connect to the starter.

There are more complex things that can prevent cranking (or starting) but you seem to have a total electrical failure so that's where I'd begin.

 

[LOGDOG5375]

Thanks Coyote machine.

I was just reading this thread:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ighlight=Kioti+ground+connection+at+the+frame

Sounds familiar to what I'm experiencing. First up in the morning, is completely replacing that negative side/ ground lead and both terminals and cleaning the mount at the frame. I like the idea of bypassing with jumper cables to see what happens.

No cruise control on mine.

I pulled each of the fuses today. They were all good and clean. The relays.... hopefully we don't have to go that far.

 

[LOGDOG5375]

Thanks for the reply ritcheyvs.

Okay, so first. I have a brand new battery that I purchased and installed today. So we know the battery is good.

Second, I just went out to test the flashers. Yes, it's after 11 p.m. and dark, but at least the hot Southern sun isn't beating down on me. Plus it's a good time to test the flashers right? So I climb in the cab and move the flasher switch side to side. Nothing. I get out and tap the negative terminal where the lead enters the terminal and the flasher that I had left on, started flashing. Check! I go around to the cab and move the switch over to the other flasher, and it flashes too. Check! I turn the radio on, and it comes on too. Check!

So I know something is not right on that negative/ground side. That's getting replaced no matter what.

When you say "check the switch" .... you mean the key switch right? I've noticed in other threads that the switch has sometimes been the culprit. Can you explain to me how I would test that switch? I've never claimed to be a mechanic, but I'm fairly good at following directions.

 

[rd_macgregor]

The only problem I've had with my ignition switch is when it loosened up and no longer made contact with the mount and, I presume, its connection to ground (the frame). For me, that intermittent or dim lights issue has always proven to be a loose or corroded connection to ground somewhere.

 

[Coyote machine]

To check the ignition switch you can take out the key and spray some WD-40 or similar product into the slot where the key enters. Then move the key through its positions numerous times and see if anything comes alive. One can remove the entire switch and take it apart, VERY CAREFULLY, on a bench, so none of the internal parts get lost. Often repacking the old switch with new fresh grease can revive them, but ultimately if the switch is on it's way out I'd replace it AND the plastic cover that can be ordered with the switch, which will help keep water out if your tractor is stored outside.

Replacing the ground cable is a good idea and I'd coat both ends where they are attached to the battery clamp and the frame bolt with an anti-corrosion paste to keep the new cable from allowing corrosion to start.

BTW, if a relay for your starting/cranking circuits is part of your final repair solution they are not expensive, and available at any good auto store. We'll walk you through that part if/when you get to it.

 

[Avondale]

I have had frequent issues with my DK 35 electrical system, all are fixable with min tools and in your own yard. Basic problems are the inside of the battery clamps tend to glaze over creating a high resistance connection, poor ground strap connection at the frame, ((eventually got tired of this one and ground the frame bare, replaced cable and then secured with grease and painted over ), and ignition key. I have found that spraying the back side of the key switch and then drying with clean lint free rags usually gets it going but I l also spray inside the key slot too, (not sure which one fixes this issue but I always do both and it works).

Good luck and please advise what your solution turns out to be.
Bob