CK20 lift capcity at bucket???

[IslandTractor]

I am considering adding a 150 lb grapple ( Wikco) to my bucket which already has a 70lb toothbar. I know from Kioti literature that the lift capacity at the pivot pins is 1074lbs but don't know how to calculate the lift capacity at the bucket. Anyone done that calculation/measurement??

I kinda doubt the decrease in lift capacity will affect my primary uses which involve lifting brush/roots/small trees but wanted to check it out before pushing ahead.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

its generaly about a 30% decrease from the pins to bucket center and a further decrease out to the end of the bucket. I'd suspect you would have about 400lbs of lift left over.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

There have been some interesting discussions on FEL capacity. It seems like the calcuations are a 30% decrease in capacity from the pivot point to the "bucket center" but what is commonly called "bucket center" is actually about 19" in front of the pivot point, not the true center of the bucket. The farther forward you go, the lower the load capacity.

I did a lot of comparisons and where I could find manufacturer's data measured at both points, 30% reduction seems to be consistent across all brands. It drops even further at the bucket lip.

If you have a 70# toothbar and you add a 150# grapple you have seeming reduced your capacity by 220#. But that is not true, you actually reduce it by something more that that because both of those attachments are well in front of the pivot point.

So if you take your roughly 1100# capacity and reduce it by 30% at the bucket center, you have a more realistic capacity of about 770#, now just for the sake of a reasonable guess you should add 30% to the weight of the 2 attachments so 220# = 285# in rough numbers assuming both are carried at the bucket center (which is a bad assumption, and probably means we are using too low of a number, but we are just doing rough calculations here). So then you could take the bucket center capacity of 770# minus 285# and you have roughly 485# of capacity available at the bucket center. I'd guess the capacity is a bit lower than that, so maybe closer to 400# as Neil suggests is accurate since you will likely carry your load in a grapple in front of the bucket center.

All of this is theoretical, of course.

Here is a good discussion on the general topic. It starts off talking about bucket size, but progresses into the calculations and capacities and should be of some help to you. Bucket Capcity vs Bucket size discussion

 

[Highbeam]

Cool. How do you propose to make the hydraulics work? I would be thrilled if someone would pioneer a HSV system rather than a diverter for a grapple. I am planning on a grapple for collecting slash and stacking in the burn heap.

 

[IslandTractor]

Thanks guys. This is helpful. I think 400 lbs more or less will still be a useful lift capacity since what I am lifting is mostly brush and 2-4 inch trash trees. I am working in a hilly area so would not want to raise and transport a heavier bucket full of material anyway. For larger trees I can rig a skid of some sort and drag instead of lift.

While on this subject, the tractor companies usually specify lift capacity to full height. I am wondering if there is a significant difference in lifting something just 2-3 feet off the ground as that is really a more practical and safe lift height when moving brush to a burn pile. It seems there might not be much difference as the lever arm is actually worst in the initial pickup from the ground....or do I have my geometry wrong?

Ed

 

[IslandTractor]

Highbeam,

I haven't gotten to that problem yet but I have been assuming I would use one of the electrically actuated diverters (which I thought were the same thing as HSVs). I know that issue has been discussed on the forum but I haven't yet gone back to review the discussions. Wikco sells a kit which might make sense just from the perspective of consolidating my tech support needs while installing the grapple.

 

[Highbeam]

Well there is the diverter and then there is the electric solenoid route (HSV). The diverter makes you lose a funtion while operating the grapple and the HSV route allows full loader function while operating the grapple. The diverter sure looks simpler from an ease of install point of view and WRlong makes a kit for that too. The solenoid route requires a source of hyd pressure that I haven't figured out how to get from the Kioti yet. I've seen pictures of it done on Kubotas though. The grapple iteself seems to be the easy part.

Do you plan to go for the double grapple?

 

[Bob_Skurka]

First, I know only enough about hydraulics to get into trouble, but you may want to move this out of the Kioti forum (at least the hydraulic questions) because we have a few excellent guys on the forum who can help you far more but they won't come into the Kioti forum.

Seek out PineRidge or RonJHall. PineRidge frequents the NH area and general areas and is a great guy. RonJHall is a Kubota guy, he sticks in the Kubota forums and occasionally other areas. Neither come to the Kioti forums. Both installed grapples on their tractors and could likely give you specific answers.

A hydraulic expert that I turn to is MadReferee he forgot more than I ever knew. He won't come into the Kioti area either.

So my suggestion is that you post you hydraulic questions in the general attachment forum.

Specifically with regard to the grapple on the CK20, after hearing your uses, why not check out a smaller grapple? There is usually a small one on Ebay called The Thumb or something like that? It is designed specifically for smaller tractors. I know of a grapple made for the BX size tractors too. Given you are talking about moving fairly light debris, you could accomplish it with a grapple designed for smaller tractors and leave yourself with more useable capacity. Also, with regard to your question about lift capacity a 'full height' versus a lower height, yes you are basically correct. You have more lift capacity at 12" off the ground than you have at full height. So for transport purposes, you could likely move a fairly heavy load if you keep it low.

 

[Highbeam]

I am actually concerned with hydraulic connection specific to the Kioti. the "Kubota 5030" thread by CT tree guy shows some great pics in the Kubota section but my problem is getting the hydro power from the Kioti. I am at the brand specific point. Still, you are right that these questions go on another thread. Thanks

 

[IslandTractor]

I was hesitating to post on the hydraulic issue as I have read a number of related posts on TBN that I should review before starting a new thread. Highbeam brings up an issue that I had not considered, that Kiotis might be plumbed quite differently from other brands. Not sure if he knows that is true or is just raising the question. Still, I take your point and will post in the attachments section.

Regarding smaller grapples: I thougth this one, at 150 pounds, was about as light as any I have seen. I'll take a peek at Ebay for "the thumb". I did try to contact the guy who is making grapples for the BX23 but got no reply. Most other grapples seem to be many hundreds of pounds and clearly not appropriate for a CK20.

Ed