New CK25 - confusing manual

[EricE]

The dealer hasn't delivered my CK25HST yet so all I have is the manual to read. It isn't the best bit of technical writing I've seen. Here are two (+) questions that are not clear in the manual.

To achieve 540 PTO RPM what should engine RPM be? In the Specifications section it says that "rated Revolution" is 2600. It also says that rear PTO is 540 at 2520. However in the "operations" section on p5-26 it says that 2646 RPM will give me 540. That's higher than "rated revolutions." I can't believe that they want us to operate above the rated revs. On their drawing of the tach they show a triangle mark that is susposed to be PTO setting but it is at 2600 which which is max revs not the pto revs they list elsewhere. Even 2520 seems high to me. I'm used to chugging along at 2000.

My second question is trying to figure out what I have to use the clutch for. If I understand the book correctly, I need to clutch for changing the PTO gear shift level, changing tractor travel speed range, and starting the tractor. Are there other things? Do I need to be stopped to change travel speed range? Does the clutch disengage the main hydraulic pump (transmission)? The more I read this book, the more questions come up. I've never had a hydro before and I don't want to start out by damaging my new tractor.

Thanks in advance for any advise you have,
Eric /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Dmace]

My CK20HST has a mark on the Tach that says 540 PTO RPM and it is at about 2500 RPMS, I use that for the snowblower. You are correct on the clutch uses, except you don't need it to change travel speeds. On a HST, the harder you press the pedal in Forward or Reverse the faster it goes. It is not a gas pedal but more of a variable gear pedal.

You need the clutch to engage the PTO, but don't use it to disengage it. You just push the lever forward to off.

 

[RedRocker]

There's a mark on your tach for the PTO. The clutch disengages everything, I use it to engage and disengage the PTO & shift speed ranges.

 

[KiotiJohn]

Don't worry about the RPM setting, as has been said, just set it to the mark. The max RPM is, of course, where the HP is rated.

You need to come to a stop and clutch to change the range selector or you'll get grinding. If you're using a PTO implement and hit the clutch, you'll quickly begin to hear the overrunning clutch engage, and if you clutch for long enough, the PTO will stop turning.

Sometimes you'll need to clutch and change range quickly, and the OR cltuch will allow that to happen without pushing the tractor as in older direct tranmission PTOs.

The PTO speed, 540 is probably around 25xx. These new compact diesel tractors tend to be rated at higher RPM than older ones where it wasn't unusual to have 540 at 1800-2000 RPM.

It appears that you have an old manual. I edited and rewrote the old manual some time ago, and p 5-26 doesn't have anything about RPM on it. I changed the reference to 540 earlier in the chapter to state that "the tachometer indicates the engine speed and the 540 rpm PTO shaft speed location on the dial." with no reference to what the tractor RPM is.

There seem to be several versions of those manuals, and in the one I first rewrote, the person in charge of the project left out all of the INDEX references that I had painstakingly searched for and entered because he didn't understand why we needed all those words to look up. LOL

The original that I worked from was in Konglish (Korean English) and didn't make much sense at all. But at least they tried.
John

 

[EricE]

Thanks for the very excellent response. It does cause another question, however. If rated speed is 2600 rpm and pto speed is soemwhere between 2550 and 2600, it seems like there is a problem breaking in the tractor. They don't want you to "operate your tractor at full speed for the first 50 hours of use." That's a long tome to wait to mow the fields. Are they talking about wheel speed instead of engine speed?

 

[EricE]

OOPS, I ment to ask if the manual you (KiotiJohn) revised is available somewhere? The Konglish is definately a challenge. Not nearly as bad as what I put up with with my 30 year old Japanese Tractor or 1 Year old Chinese tractor. The chinese one is almost unintelligable.

 

[RedRocker]

I'll idle down, push in the clutch, engage the PTO, ease the clutch out to let things start spinning, then up the RPM to around 2K or more, don't worry too much about max PTO RPM's till you get some time on the engine. it won't hurt to mow at a little lower speed.

 

[KiotiJohn]

There is no harm in using max engine speed for mowing, but vary the speed often while in the break-in. You can mow a little lower than max, and at max, and when not using the PTO, you can operate all over the place.

The most important thing is not to "lug" the tractor down a lot. That is more damaging by far than speeds. Don't let it sit a slow idle for long periods either, rev it up a little now and then if you have to be off for very long and leave it running. Saftey, of course, says don't leave it running, but you know.

You are lugging the tractor when you hear the engine go down, and if you pushed the throttle up it wouldn't speed up any. That's when you back off and let the tractor engine catch up. Don't keep it in that situation for long periods. Easiest just to ease up when you hear the engine beging to be pulled down.

I did have the PDFs for that version of the manual, but I didn't have them backed up when my computer crashed, all lost.

There appear to be several versions running around. The one printed after I got this one done was supposed to have the new INDEX in it, but I never saw one. Kioti dealers may have the newest version, but apparently not the one where you bought!

If you have any questions, I have a hard copy of it here.
Just send me a private message (PM) and I'll get back to you.
John

 

[EricE]

Many thanks, John.