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  1. #1

    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    63
    Location
    Mt Pilot North Carolina
    Tractor
    Jd 345

    Default Kubota vs John Deere

    Thanks for all the info you provided. Heres the present state of my buying situation. I now own a JD345. It would be easier to trade with a JD dealer for a 4300. Having searched the forums if Im going Deere this is the tractor. I know about the hydro problems and the front axle problems but,this would be a new production tractor delivered in June. Hopefully the problems will be resolved. I really like the kubota 2710 or 2910, however I am just a little worried about the Kubota dealer..ie. will he be there next year. I have no such worries about the JD dealer. Both dealers have been very helpful. How about some input. Thank you in advance



  2. #2
    Epic Contributor Bird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Posts
    36,992
    Location
    Texas

    Default Re: Kubota vs John Deere

    I don't know a thing about your kubota dealer, so I couldn't have an opinion as to whether he'll be there next year, but Kubota's been around a long time, and in my case, there are 4 Kubota dealers within 75 miles (and the same number of Deere dealers). You already know about the problems the Deere has had; maybe they've been corrected; I don't know. But whether they have been or not, I wouldn't trade my B2710 for one. However, if you've decided to go with the Deere, I suspect you'll be happy with it.

    Bird

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    63
    Location
    Mt Pilot North Carolina
    Tractor
    Jd 345

    Default Re: Kubota vs John Deere

    So, please tell me if he folds how will other kubota dealers treat me since I did not originally purchase from them..qqq. Second, would you now purchase a 2910 had it been availiable when you purchased.qqq


  4. #4
    Epic Contributor Bird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Posts
    36,992
    Location
    Texas

    Default Re: Kubota vs John Deere

    David, if your local car dealer folds, how're other dealers for the same make going to treat you? I suspect they'll want the business. There's good and bad dealers in everything, I'm sure, but it's not something I'd worry about. As for the B2910, I haven't seen one yet, so I don't know whether I'd pay the price difference or not. It's my understanding that you get 2 more horsepower (I've never had a shortage of power; traction maybe, but not power), tilt and telescope wheel (a feature I like, but the 2710 wheel is where I want it anyway, so it doesn't need to move for me), a better cruise control (I don't know just how it's better). In other words, I'd probably prefer the newer, more powerful model, but I probably wouldn't pay much, if any, more for it.

    Bird

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    63
    Location
    Mt Pilot North Carolina
    Tractor
    Jd 345

    Default Re: Kubota vs John Deere

    Bird, thank you. Would you like to buy a 345.QQQ It would make a great monument for all those Deereafites. It does have a Kawasaki engine. Im sold on Japanese workmanship and quality. I drive a Toyota pickup that has 400,000 plus miles on it and drives like new. I suspect kubota is the same. Thank You


  6. #6

    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    569
    Location
    Central Maryland
    Tractor
    Kubota BX 2200

    Default Re: Kubota vs John Deere

    David;

    I am sure you will like the 345 and then the 4300, they are both good machines. But, I really believe that you were going to by green regardless. For example, those same features that you noted in your previous post (Re: buying, 04/10/2000) on why you wouldn't own a BX, you now have in the 345. Only thing that changed was color, and then they became acceptable.

    To have a bias towards a manufacture is OK. We all have to spend our own money, and make our own buy decisions on whatever factors we decide.

    But, I don't want people to take that dealership-life expectancy as a buying factor, unless it has credibility. My gut feeling is it is the opposite. Around me, the JD dealerships have stayed constant over the years, while the number of kubota dealers have exploded. A local businessman (auto repair shop) told me that our closest JD dealer received a large infusion of cash last year from JD just to stay afloat. (Since this is hearsay, I won't attribute it as fact). Anyway, what I will do is try to find if there are any actual numbers to show changes in number of dealerships for both over the last 10 years. The JD annual report will be out soon, maybe that will give us some indications. I will post any findings.



  7. #7

    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    569
    Location
    Central Maryland
    Tractor
    Kubota BX 2200

    Default Re: Kubota vs John Deere

    That didn't take long. Don't have the data I was originally looking for, but found 2 interesting things at Hoover's (a business analysis service) that may help.

    Tractor sales data for March could signal turnaround
    Reuters Company News - April 12, 2000 16:36

    "Even if demand does not strengthen, equipment makers like Deere & Co. , CNH Global NV and AGCO Corp. could still raise production this year after slashing production in 1999 to bring inventory levels down to demand."

    "Production levels have picked up in all segments and companies are on their way toward their forecasts of production gains in 2000 versus 1999," Tobias Levkovich, analyst at Salomon Smith Barney, said in a research report. "

    kubota quietly finds success in both machinery and engine markets in North
    America.
    Abstracted from Diesel Progress North American Edition 02/01/99

    "Kubota Corp of Japan has slowly built a strong base in the North American machinery and diesel engine markets. As one of the premier manufacturers of both diesel engines and machinery in the world, Kubota consistently turns in impressive sales figures annually. The company is the leading supplier of small farm and utility tractors under 40 hp in North America and is ranked second in the market for small backhoe loaders. It is also second to Melroe in miniexcavators, accounting for about 30% of the market. Kubota's major competitors in the North American market are Caterpillar, Deere, Waldon and Singer."

    So it looks like, in general, all dealers and manufacturer's were hit hard last year (article #1), but they are currently seeing (what hopefully will be a long-term) turnaround. So my local JD dealer probably did experience difficulty in 1999, but will be staying around.

    Article #2 explains why I have seen an explosion of Kubota dealers.

    In all, I believe both will be around a long time. And that is a good thing for us consumers. I like choices, not monopolies!



  8. #8

    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    216
    Location
    S. E. Michigan
    Tractor
    B2710 w/ 402 Loader and 72" belly mower.

    Default Re: Kubota vs John Deere

    I'm sure you will be happy with your purchase--proper care and feeding is key to any long term success. I'm sure JD will make right anything major that goes wrong.

    That said, just have to say I think JD has become a rotten company. Had the displeasure of contacting them after getting ripped-off by a dealer on lawnmower service. Will spare the details, but suffice to say they do stand by their dealers--literally, no matter how absurd! Did some digging, and found MANY unhappy campers in various web posts. Just bought a kubota (2710), and through a similar search I found 1 dissatisfied owner (granted smaller sample size resulted in my search). This individual re-posted saying Kubota sent a rep. out, picked up his tractor and dropped of a new one--more recent model for no incremental cost. While without the details, hard to say what exactly transpired, there seems to be a clear, major difference in the company's approach. I feel Kubota takes a much longer term perspective--they are growing a brand from a consumer product perspective. Whereas JD is milking a good old one.

    JD also outsources much of their work (all under 40Hp I hear), and many parts on all others. They are now into badging low end lawnmowers/lawn tractors to be cost competitive with Sears, etc.. Takes a significant shift in mindset to change from 'last froever, solid machines' (like my '67 JD110 mower that will never die), to throw away specials. Kubota as I understand does ALL their engineering and manufacturing--there is a difference in ability to control quality and properly manage trade-offs.. Even noticed a clear difference in dealer attitudes (interacted with 4 or 5 of each over the years, the Kubota dealers all recently)--the Kubota folks seem to try harder. My guess is more time spent on training and image enancement, vs. how to push the product (have seen JD manuals on this). The Kubota manuals give a glimpse of the possible reason--more wholistic view of the world and their place in it. Has to show-up to some extent in the product. JD, via the annual report, appears more market share and segment growth focused, profitability etc..

    In my opinion JD has just become a typical 21st century company running a previously good brand name into the dirt. But as they say, opinions are like.......time will tell.

    That said, I think you're purchase is reasonably safe--will likely take awhile for the throw away mentality to perculate through their entire product line.


  9. #9

    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    63
    Location
    Mt Pilot North Carolina
    Tractor
    Jd 345

    Default Re: Kubota vs John Deere

    Roy , Thanks for the info. Let me make a clarification. I've owned my JD345 for almost three years(this June). When I bought this tractor I loved it and it has been a great tool. But, I quickly realized that I may need more capabilities..ie tiller. So, every spring I make the rounds at the dealers..wife in tow ( a real trooper>>>I make it up to her by enduring clothes shopping ). What I have noticed is that same dealer this year had grown an attitude. The salesman that I was dealing with kind of had a take it or leave it attitude. When I asked him to sell me on his product over kubota..He said with a smug look that Deere sells itself. I felt very unwelcome at this dealer. This led me to a competitive JD dealer who has been very responsive however he denies knowledge of the turf scuffing and front axle problems..hum..QQQ. I like the BX but want to buy more rather than less. I agree totally with your thoughts on Deere and their marketing. I kinda wonder why they chose orange for the Scotts tractors. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again


  10. #10

    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    569
    Location
    Central Maryland
    Tractor
    Kubota BX 2200

    Default Re: Kubota vs John Deere

    David;

    My apologies that I tried to read between the lines, and came up with the wrong conclusions on what your were stating. Your logic does make sense. Must say that it looks like some dealers are self destructive. My situation is somewhat similar to yours. Having owned a JD 170 for years, I looked to go upward. But over those years, my local JD dealer became a different place, with a different attitude. It didn't prevent me from looking at JD, but I looked only at other JD dealerships.

    I agree that if you can go bigger, do it! I thought maybe my BX was an overkill for 2 acres, but I dropped my son off at a new friends house last night. Ended up staying for over an hour talking to his friend's father. First thing I noticed when I pulled into the driveway was that he had an L-series for his 3 acres. If you can do it, go for it.

    Good luck in your search, and I believe that either choice (kubota or JD) will serve you well, and that both manufactures will still be around after we are gone.



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