Delay in MMM Should I Go With A Rear Mower

   / Delay in MMM Should I Go With A Rear Mower #11  
I should mention a couple of additional things:

Probably 75% of my mowing is two large, open areas in the front of my house (3 or 4 acres) ..... not much maneuvering involved - the B2910 excels at doing these two areas - if I don't let the grass get overly long, I can cut both areas in about 2 hours (total) time.

The side and rear yards are much smaller, are not as open, and involve cutting irregular shaped areas and cutting around lots of obstructions (trees, landscaping, etc.)

I have an older Simplicity CFC 18 (Commercial Front Cut), 18 HP Kohler engine, with a 46" deck - if this unit had one of the larger decks that were available for it (up to 60" I think) it would be far more attractive to me (although it is a treat to drive and cruise around on) .... the unit is somewhat of maintenance nightmare (it's hydrostatic - with dual Eaton pumps/motors, and a double chain reduction drive - which is a real treat to keep properly adjusted ....)

I'm at the point now of having to replace (again) the chains, and at least some of the sprockets (there are a total of 8 sprockets, two of which are integral hub/sprockets assemblies) ...... if I really did it right and replaced all of them, I'm looking at over a grand alone, in parts from Simplicity ......

I'm probably just go ahead and replace all of them (except for the huge 14" sprocket/hub assemblies, which I may try to have machined) .... but I will likely just source some plain sprockets (cheap) if possible and cut the old ones off and weld the new ones on the shafts myself .....
 
   / Delay in MMM Should I Go With A Rear Mower #12  
I ordered a 2630 along with the 72" MMM just over a month ago. My dealer has had difficulty in finding this deck. Kubota is not going to have any available until at least August and no dealer is willing to let go of them if they do have one.

Now my options are to wait for one or look at an alternative. I could go with the smaller deck but I really want the extra width for mowing. I could go with a Landpride Patriot 72" rear mower but I am unsure about how a rear mower would handle. I will be doing a lot of mowing with the tractor and some of it will be up around the house. I could just get close to the house and use a push mower right next to the house. Some pluses with this would be, 1) it is rear discharge which would be nice, 2) I could use it as a counter weight when using the FEL, 3) I can get mulching blades for it, 4) I think I can tilt it up for easy servicing of the blades. Some negatives, 1) maneuverability, 2) difficulty in changing mowing height. Not sure about other pluses and minuses.

I am looking for any more experienced advice on whether I should go with the Landpride or just wait it out.

Mid mount mowers and rear finishing mowers both have their place. Mid mounts are easier to see and easier to mow close with. Rear mount mowers are easier and quicker to put on and take off. Rear mount mowers are easier to maintain because they are out in the open and not buried under a tractor.
 
   / Delay in MMM Should I Go With A Rear Mower #13  
I ordered a 2630 along with the 72" MMM just over a month ago. My dealer has had difficulty in finding this deck. Kubota is not going to have any available until at least August and no dealer is willing to let go of them if they do have one.

Now my options are to wait for one or look at an alternative. I could go with the smaller deck but I really want the extra width for mowing. I could go with a Landpride Patriot 72" rear mower but I am unsure about how a rear mower would handle. I will be doing a lot of mowing with the tractor and some of it will be up around the house. I could just get close to the house and use a push mower right next to the house. Some pluses with this would be, 1) it is rear discharge which would be nice, 2) I could use it as a counter weight when using the FEL, 3) I can get mulching blades for it, 4) I think I can tilt it up for easy servicing of the blades. Some negatives, 1) maneuverability, 2) difficulty in changing mowing height. Not sure about other pluses and minuses.

I am looking for any more experienced advice on whether I should go with the Landpride or just wait it out.

Well, I have a 2630 with a 60" MMM and I would recommend you bite the bullet and go with the smaller deck. I don't think the extra 12" will make that much difference unless you are really mowing a lot of acreage. Also the 72" will be a little harder to navigate around things since it sticks out beyond the wheelbase. The 60" seems to line up perfectly with the tires. I've also heard that the 72" is a bit more prone to scalping due to the wider width.

Personally, I can't picture myself mowing my hard with a rear rotaray finish mower. The 60" MMM is really easy to get around with in tight spots, and I'd lose that completely with a rear mower.

Anyhow - hope my opinion helps in your decision making. Good luck.

Dave
 
   / Delay in MMM Should I Go With A Rear Mower
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Thank you all for the help. I have ruled out getting the rear mower. I have a neck that gets tweaked easily and I can't imagine turning around all the time making sure I do not hit anything. I mow about 4 acres with 3 acres of that around our house and associated landscaping and 1 acre in paths through our 20 acres of fields and grass along the road. It takes me about 3 hours with my JD and 54" MMM. I went with the 72" MMM as I was hoping it would cut down on my mowing time. Now I make 2 passes on the paths with the 72" MMM I could do a path in 1 pass.

Somewhere in these forums someone stated that they started with the 60" MMM but moved up to the 72" MMM and were glad they did as the deck sticks out a bit more and it is easier to go around trees and bushes. With the 60" deck I can get it suspended. I do not necessarily have a good reason for it but it seems to me that a suspended deck would be better than a ground contact deck.

Most of my land is flat but there is one area that I think I would scalp pretty badly with the 72" MMM as I already experience some scalping with my 54" MMM.

I wonder if the 72" deck for the 3200 is any easier to get. I wish I could get the 2630 and the FEL now and just wait for the MMM to come in.
 
   / Delay in MMM Should I Go With A Rear Mower #15  
I went with the 72" MMM as I was hoping it would cut down on my mowing time. Now I make 2 passes on the paths with the 72" MMM I could do a path in 1 pass.
It likely will ..... although I usually overlap my previous pass by 12" or so - when I mow, and the mowing is done with each pass in the opposite direction of the last.

The overlap is done in to run the deck over where the front and rear wheels on one side have mashed the grass down - in an attempt to stand up any mashed down grass and (re)cut it.

Somewhere in these forums someone stated that they started with the 60" MMM but moved up to the 72" MMM and were glad they did as the deck sticks out a bit more and it is easier to go around trees and bushes.
Dunno who said it, but it's a good and valid point.

Most of my land is flat but there is one area that I think I would scalp pretty badly with the 72" MMM as I already experience some scalping with my 54" MMM.
I really don't have much in the way of scalping problems .... the couple of areas where I do, are either areas where I need to fix the grade, or just areas I shouldn't even be trying to do with the MMM (like the edge of lawn where it drops 4" to the driveway.

Attached are a couple of pics of the last mowing I did - they aren't the greatest quality (taken with my iPhone), but they might give you an idea.

FWIW, a word about the condition of the lawn - it was cut about 2 weeks ago for the first time this year - and the grass was around 3' tall at the time - so the lawn isn't in the greatest of shape.
 

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   / Delay in MMM Should I Go With A Rear Mower #16  
I had a 72RFM mounted on a L3130 to mow about 4 acres. I was never happy with the finished job. wheel tracks where the tires ran made it look quite uneven. Getting in corners and not hitting fences took lots of extra time. I now mow this same amount with a BX2360 with 60MMM. Lots nicer cut. Much easier getting around and I'm getting done in about 30min less time with much less fuel. If it were me I would follow the suggestion and get the 60inch MMM.
 
   / Delay in MMM Should I Go With A Rear Mower #17  
It is a series of trade-offs, to be sure. Detail trimming, close decks, shrubs, swings, fire-pits, trees all need to be trimmed out. No one machine can be expected to be able to do it all. It is, perhaps, the putting together of the combination of equipment and tools that makes the job easiest for you that is important.

The cut makes a pretty good machine for tackling the wide open spacious areas by providing a comfortable ride and wide cutting deck, either mid or aft of the tractor. But those same advantages become a disadvantage when encountering obstacles and detail work. The ROPS can get hung on clothes lines, branches and so on.

I combine an tractor/RFM with a small push mower and two string trimmers. It works well for me. Every situation is unique, but one thing seems certain and that is that no one machine can seemingly do it all.

String trimmer, push mower, lawn tractor, zero turn, front mowing tractor, tractor with MMM, tractor RFM. Some combination of the above is required and finding the right combo is tough.

Do something in the meanwhile. If you had your heart set on a particular MMM, I'd wait. A month or two is nothing compared to a decade.:D
 
   / Delay in MMM Should I Go With A Rear Mower #18  
I have a B2910 with the 72" MMM ..... I would not buy one again .... and am a bit disappointed in the dealer for recommending it - mostly for the PR/sales pitch I got when it was sold to me: "cuts pretty good" (yeah, it does - but it ain't that good) ...... "it's easy to remove and install" (well ... your idea of "easy" is a little different than mine ....)


a. A belly mower or rotary finish mower typically does not have a full width roller to avoid scalping which also increase the pounds pewr square inch of contact pressure at each roller where a full width roller has a lower PSI as the entire weight is spread across the full width roller.

b. The RAD mowers from canada are what they offer for the kubota belly mower and they cost less to buy and sell.

c. if you travel slowly anything cuts good but a belly mower or rear finish mower tears the grass as it moves(no matter the speed due to:

c 1. the horizontal rotation of the blades
c 2. the high blade tips speed which allows a faster cutting edge speed due
to the limited amount of cutting edge on each blade
c 3. the forward or rearward direction of travel

While it does a decent job - the front R4 tires always squish down a fairly wide swath of grass as you run over it -
and, depending on your mowing height, it may result in the grass that has gone under the front tires not being pulled all the way up when being cut (unless you plan on redlining your tractor every time you mow) ..... after a few days (a little post-mowing rain always seems to help) the grass that went under the front tires is a bit longer than the rest .....

several things about this:


1. The lugs on the R4 tires are concentrating the front weight of the tractor
over each lug in contact with the ground and grass turf matt. this amounts
to one half of the tractors front weight on each lug as it contacts the
ground while under motion.
motion plus the weight of a suspended mower deck if used.

2. The limited area on the mower blade creating suction and the wind tunnel
on the portion of the mower deck surrounding the blade are dynamic which
reduces the amount of suction per square inch created by the wind tunnel
and baffles in which a slower travel speed allows greater vertical suction
suction and discharge to the neighboring blade and baffle and finally to
the the discharge side.


This seems to be aggravated by mowing the lawn higher (which I would prefer to do for the health of the grass) ..... if you mow if shorter, it doesn't seem to happen to the same degree.


a. The mower skips and leaves rooster tails due to the faster forward speed.
b. this also occurs with brush mowers and high cuttings as well for the same
reasons.

A flail mower will not skip as the entire width of the mower deck has cutting surfaces which are slicing at a lower speed than a belly mower and damaging the turf less.

Each individual knive blade on a flail mower has a sharp cutting edge slicing the 2 inches or so of width with another knive following it slicing in overlap to create a finly cut turf with very short grass clippings.

a. the flail mower with 2 rows of knives cuts slightly rougher as it moves forward and leaves longer cuttings( alleviated by slower foward speed or overlapping half the width which does not hurt the turf because the cutting are lifted and recut and suctioned and thrown over the rotor to the rear and thrown to the rear of the mower hood and setle on the turf to be composted quickly.

b. even with tall grass you can overlap or mow in circles to eliminate the long clippings with no raking. Mowing in circles eliminates braking and saves fuel as well and the lawn still looks beautiful and after a few days the grass has recovered quickly to the point where your wheel marks are gone the second day.



My largest complaint is the PITA that removing or installing the MMM is .... on smooth concrete in an air-conditioned shop it would probably be much easier ..... try it in the sun on an old asphalt driveway, when it's 88 degrees and 90% humidity ....

A. A flail mower is connected to the tractor with the three point hitch, any
hydraulics for side shift and the PTO shaft.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the 72" MMM, that PTO shaft is a long ways up under the tractor - I'm over 6' 1" with fairly long arms and I find it to be a pain ...... the 72" width makes reaching and accessing the mid-PTO more difficult ...... and I ain't getting any younger .....


see A above




This really wouldn't be too much of a problem - if you were mostly using the tractor for mowing .....

But if you are using it alot for other stuff (particularly 3PH work) often, where the MMM mower needs to removed often, it has got to be way more hassle than a 3PH rear mower. The rear mount is still going to have the issue of ALL the tires running over the grass before you cut it ..... but at least the pain and suffering of removal and installation is minimized .....


See A. above


The same applies to a rear rotary finish mower








Ideally, I'd like to have a Kubota F-series front-mounted mower .... but I haven't reached that level of affluence quite yet ....

I have to say, although I have no personal experience them myself, leon'z making a good case for a flail mower ... if I were looking, I think I'd have to consider it as an option.


As mentioned previously I would ask about the six foot land pride in Kubota colors with the four rows of knives, hydraulic side shift and mower stand since they cant seem buy you a belly mower for your tractor for the followng reasons.

a. hydraulic side shift to cut close when desired and also offset cut when you
want.

b. you will be able to use it on another tractor if and when you trade with no issues unless you buy a 1,000 rpm pto tractor in the future-but you can still buy the spline adapters for 1,000 to 540 rpm from John deere anyway I believe.


c. You will be able to obtain a land pride flail in kubotas colors faster than thier MMM if you want Kubota colors

d. buy a Caroni with 4 rows of knives and the hydraulic side shift and use the internet buying price option and you should have it in a week or less if you are close to one of their retail outlets.

e . much less effort to change cutting knives and clean them(a hose with no scraping).


f. if you have a bad mowing knife you change one mowing knife with the flail mower disconnected and laid back with no issues.

g. you can sharpen them with a table belt sander or simply change the knives every few years.

The belly mower come from RAD so I think you will have a long wait period during the mowing season due to the RAD folks custom building for so a many brands.

If you have paid for a belly mower I would be very hard nosed and tell them you want a land pride flail in kubota colors with side shift or a refund for the belly mower to buy a land pride or other flail mower from another dealer in the 72 inch range with side shift from agrisupply and have it in a few days.

I would rather lose a sale than a customer.

Myy thoughts anyway
 
   / Delay in MMM Should I Go With A Rear Mower #19  
I personally would not have a mmm.
That being said, everyone here that makes comments has their own preferences and or agenda, so take them all with a grain of salt, and buy what YOU think you will want and need, and then be happy with your choice.
Good luck
 
   / Delay in MMM Should I Go With A Rear Mower #20  
leonz,

About all I know about flail mowers is from your posts, so keep that in mind. Out of curiosity, I checked the land Pride website and the only flail mowers were for 55 to 80 HP, so that doesn't "seem" to be an option for the OP, but I am sure I am missing something. I agree on the quality of Caroni as I have two very old finish mowers that have been virtually indestructible in spite of serious use/abuse.

In one thread, someone posted turf damage when turning with a flail mower in the down position; is this a real concern or fluke?

I just bought new rotary cutters this year, but if I live long enough to wear them out, I might look into a flail mower.
 
 
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