Buying Advice New Products for 2012 ???

[AxleHub]

Has anyone else been reading about the new diesel engines that were announced 3 days ago by the competition?

I predict that Kubota will introduce a series of new, highly efficient diesel engines during 2012. Likely for their higher end zero turn diesel models, their BX and B products.

Why? Because Kohler is leap frogging many in the small diesel market. Highly fuel efficient AND 10 times less particulate emissions. Engine costs are higher but eliminate the higher cost egr type canisters and filters.

More power, less fuel used, less emissions concerns right in time for the new regs..

Great for gov't type bids. Kubota is competitive and regs. Require change anyway.

I predict Kubota has also been working on similar type improvements but Kohler has an early lead. Watch and see.

Opinions ??? I also predict the dealers haven't heard a word about it yet. Could be any time in 2012 imo.


Why

 

[Verticaltrx]

I personally kind of doubt they'd be introducing anything like that in the near future. Kubota tends to stick with tried and true designs on their equipment as long as they can. 'Updated' models generally only have some new features, improved styling, and any necessary fixes to correct problems that a previous model had.

This is one reason why Kubotas are viewed as being so reliable. They don't just start with a clean slate every couple models like other manufactures, a lot less bugs to work out that way.

I also doubt Kubota worries much about what Kohler is doing. It is a miniscule company in comparison and Kubota is still the name everyone knows and trusts when it comes to small diesel engines. I can't say for sure they aren't working on something similar, but I would doubt it is one of their top priorities. Now they might be working on some new emissions related changes, but I doubt they'd start with a clean slate on their diesel engines.


Also, while the new 'highly efficient' diesel engines may sound good on paper, out in the field they aren't what diesels used to be. We got a Deere 5045e last fall and it is a great tractor, but the new turbo charged 'efficient and clean' engine leaves something to be desired. They took a well proven engine, turbo charged it and leaned it way out, and now have something with no low end torque, very poor throttle response, added complexity and presumably lower longevity. As soon as the warranty runs out we'll be pulling the turbo off and tuning it back to the specs of the prior models.


Maybe others have more insight on what Kubota may be planning, I'd be interested to hear it if they do. I'm planning on buying another Kubota for my business in the next couple years so it'll be interesting to see what they will have to change by then.

 

[Jon Chanoski]

I personally kind of doubt they'd be introducing anything like that in the near future. Kubota tends to stick with tried and true designs on their equipment as long as they can. 'Updated' models generally only have some new features, improved styling, and any necessary fixes to correct problems that a previous model had.

This is one reason why Kubotas are viewed as being so reliable. They don't just start with a clean slate every couple models like other manufactures, a lot less bugs to work out that way.

I also doubt Kubota worries much about what Kohler is doing. It is a miniscule company in comparison and Kubota is still the name everyone knows and trusts when it comes to small diesel engines. I can't say for sure they aren't working on something similar, but I would doubt it is one of their top priorities. Now they might be working on some new emissions related changes, but I doubt they'd start with a clean slate on their diesel engines.


Also, while the new 'highly efficient' diesel engines may sound good on paper, out in the field they aren't what diesels used to be. We got a Deere 5045e last fall and it is a great tractor, but the new turbo charged 'efficient and clean' engine leaves something to be desired. They took a well proven engine, turbo charged it and leaned it way out, and now have something with no low end torque, very poor throttle response, added complexity and presumably lower longevity. As soon as the warranty runs out we'll be pulling the turbo off and tuning it back to the specs of the prior models.


Maybe others have more insight on what Kubota may be planning, I'd be interested to hear it if they do. I'm planning on buying another Kubota for my business in the next couple years so it'll be interesting to see what they will have to change by then.

Not sure about your 5045E but my 5075E is a differant animal plenty of low end torque and pretty darn snappy throttle response!!! Where are you getting your info from on the lower longevity?

 

[Verticaltrx]

Not sure about your 5045E but my 5075E is a differant animal plenty of low end torque and pretty darn snappy throttle response!!! Where are you getting your info from on the lower longevity?

I guess it may be because the 45hp version is at the lower end of the hp range, but it still doesn't act the same as our old International 454 diesel, which is the same displacement engine and same hp.

As for the longevity, that is just my speculation. Partially because being turbocharged it needs longer warm up and cool down times which it frequently doesn't get with the type of work we use it for.

 

[MHarryE]

Sure Kubota will introduce engines with 90% less particulate emissions by the end of 2012. Its the law. They either introduce the cleaner engines or they stop selling tractors.

 

[Monster5601]

Sure Kubota will introduce engines with 90% less particulate emissions by the end of 2012. Its the law. They either introduce the cleaner engines or they stop selling tractors.

Where are their engines at now on the emission standards? I'm not familiar with the new laws so 90% less particulates is based off of...

 

[Monster5601]

Why? Because Kohler is leap frogging many in the small diesel market. Highly fuel efficient AND 10 times less particulate emissions. Engine costs are higher but eliminate the higher cost egr type canisters and filters.

Opinions ??? I also predict the dealers haven't heard a word about it yet. Could be any time in 2012 imo.

Why

You asked for opinions well, be careful of marketing bull. Every one thinks they have the best razor blade but only time can prove that. Kohler has been around and has a name albeit somewhat tarnished by the horsepower rating scandal.

In order for Kohler to get into the market they have to find away to push aside already established and proven diesel engine manufactures. That isn't going to be easy, even if they offer a price break to get in.

If I was a manufacture that produced products using diesel engines, the last thing on my mind would be to use a not proven diesel engine in the product I make, that I warranty, and that I have worked hard at creating a bullet-proof reputation.

 

[High Compression]

It's hard to speculate what a manufacture will do when government regulations kick in. In late 1994, Ford (International) came out with what became one of the best diesel engines to ever be put in a truck. The "Powerstroke". It was powerful, reliable, and almost indestructible.
Ford saw the 2010 emission regulations coming and discontinued the engine in late 2003 stating that they would not be able to get that engine to pass those emission requirements. We all know what happened from there.
That really hurt Ford. Maybe they screwed up, but they still sell trucks. It's open to speculation, but the point is, sometimes manufactures are forced to make changes that they don't want. Making a transition to a "new" engine can never be easy. The only way this will stop, is if we someday go electric.

 

[kuboman]

Or get rid of the EPA and California:thumbsup:

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Opinions ??? I also predict the dealers haven't heard a word about it yet.

Your right about that part anyway.

BX's don't go Tier4i until 2014 (i think). Mid year product introductions are never revolutionary stuff. I'd be pretty surprised to see a mid year BX as it would miss the selling season for that size tractor.