Tractor Sizing Grave Digger Seeking Sub-Compact/Compact TLB for 36" Bucket

[leonz]

The key to excavation is preparation.

Using a portable cable trencher like the ones used to bury
propane feeder lines and cables are a very good way to
break old sod deeply beyond the deepest root depth of the sod and
shallow near surface tree roots.


By employing the cable trencher you can make multiple cuts in the marked area of
the grave site to cut up the sod uniformly without making mess and keeping the
collar of the burial hole uniform.

FYI and I want you think about this-

In Great Britain many graves are still dug by hand and grave diggers and cemetary's
have one piece steel or aluminum grave digging forms that are employed for digging graves.

The rectangular forms have a an upper and lower step that allow the digger protection from
a cave in by creating a narrow rectangular hole and then the hole is enlarged by digging back
under the form until the dirt and stones under the outer edge allow it to drop into the hole to
the depth of the step(riser).

The digging for the grave continues until the full depth is reached and then the form is removed.


By using the gas powered cable trencher this would let you employ a small tracked excavator with
high floatation tracks and a narrowed toothed bucket without tearing up more sod than needed.

The smallest tracked excavators have curved upper booms now that allow the machine to dig to
a deeper final depth allowing the user to work in more narrow excavations.


By using a thumb on the bucket you will also avoid spillage and avoid having large rocks fall out
and make a mess.

A tracked excavator would be of more benefit to you as you could move in and out of grave sites more quickly as you would be working from one position after you have laid your plywood down for the dirt pile.

You also have to remember that even the smallest tracked excavator has zero tail swing and will not
be "longer" or "wider" than the tracks.

 

[DigSouthArk]

How do you keep from sliding around sitting on top of the plywood and digging with a 36"? Just curious. Heck when I catch a big root or rock on the 24 it just drags my big cat to the hole. Specs on your machine say it weights 7280lbs. Is that sound right?

Were you swinging those boxes off the FEL or the hoe? If the hoe I'm surprised it could lift one let alone swing it in the hole. They do take up a lot of space and at least around here you have to make sure you have enough weight on your GVW. Sounds like you do the set up as well. I've never got into that for the very reasons you stated plus I do other stuff besides grave digging.

But back to your issue at hand. Maybe you already do this but is there any chance of running a set of forks on the FEL and using them to handle the plywood? If the plywood was properly stacked you could use the forks to unload and place them and to pick them up and restack them on your trailer.

Sometimes people are going to complain. They seize upon some detail and have the need to regain some control in the situation. I have a pretty good working relationship with the caretakers but I know what you mean. Sometimes the next level up has "ideas" even though most have never came out and watched the process.

I think turf's will definitely decrease your visible track. Is there anything else you do with the 110 where turf's would cause problems? It would be an expensive experiment to see if its worthwhile but at 7280lbs it just may be the ticket. One of my friends has turf's on a CUT JD and he says it leave almost no track on lawn but won't do anything at all in the mud.

I don't typically sit my machine on plywood for digging, only have plywood under my dirt pile to the side of the grave. However, there are times where the ground is so soft that I do have to put down 4x8 sheets to sit on while I'm digging. Most of the time though I only put a 2' x 4' piece under each out rigger. My riggers have street pads on them, so they do slide back and forth some, but I usually take it nice and slow. Going slow I can feel when it catches on a root or when my machine is about to start sliding, then I can readjust before it happens.
The biggest problem I have with making tracks or ruts is when moving the excess dirt. With a vault I have to make 5 loads (roughly 1/2 cubic yard each), so that's 10 times on the same tracks, plus another 2 times to backfill the hole and get out. Those 5 trips while loaded with all that weight can cause some damage, especially if you're driving over other graves. I had one today where the only way in and out was over 6 other graves and then meander about 150' back and forth between monuments and graves out to the road. I had to spread roughly a 1/2 yard to fill ruts in those 6 graves. That was with plywood pieces down. The plywood just sank into the ground.

As for the weight, 7,280 lbs sounds about right. I axled my whole truck and trailer on the scales one day and the trailer axles with the tractor loaded weighed in at 10,480 lbs. I really should have ran the hoe across by itself to get an accurate weight on it, but I didn't think about it at the time.

When I was setting concrete boxes, I was swinging them with the FEL. I have a utility bed on my truck that is rigged out for all of my setup equipment to keep everything in the dry. I was having to put those c-boxes in the bed, which is about 2 feet too short because of the front compartment that runs the full width of the truck. I would have to lift the box in the air, get off the tractor, back the truck under the swinging box, get back on the tractor, and set the box down into the bed, and then do the same thing at the cemetery to off load. I would use the backhoe for pulling the lids and putting them back on, but only the FEL for lifting them.

As for handling the plywood, what I do now is lay it across my FEL boom. I keep about 8 full 4' x 8' sheets, 6 2'x8' pieces, 4 2'x6' pieces, and 4 2'x4' pieces stacked neatly on my trailer. I always use 3 full sheets under my dirt pile and 2 small pieces under my outriggers, and then any more that I think I may need for driving on and/or to lean against monuments to keep the dirt off of them. I have seriously considered forks, but I've often thought that they may be more trouble than they are worth because I would have to remove them for moving dirt or backfilling, and then put them back on to load the plywood and haul it away.

I estimate (based on my recollection of pricing from the Internet) that it will cost $1,500 to $1,700 to put turf tires all the way around. That is definitely an expensive experiment. Technically, my hoe is only for grave digging, but I occasionally use it around the house and farm, and have done some odd jobs with it for other people such as setting septic tanks, digging trenches for field lines, setting culverts, etc. I think I could make due with turfs.

 

[DigSouthArk]

How do you keep from sliding around sitting on top of the plywood and digging with a 36"? Just curious. Heck when I catch a big root or rock on the 24 it just drags my big cat to the hole. Specs on your machine say it weights 7280lbs. Is that sound right?

Were you swinging those boxes off the FEL or the hoe? If the hoe I'm surprised it could lift one let alone swing it in the hole. They do take up a lot of space and at least around here you have to make sure you have enough weight on your GVW. Sounds like you do the set up as well. I've never got into that for the very reasons you stated plus I do other stuff besides grave digging.

But back to your issue at hand. Maybe you already do this but is there any chance of running a set of forks on the FEL and using them to handle the plywood? If the plywood was properly stacked you could use the forks to unload and place them and to pick them up and restack them on your trailer.

Sometimes people are going to complain. They seize upon some detail and have the need to regain some control in the situation. I have a pretty good working relationship with the caretakers but I know what you mean. Sometimes the next level up has "ideas" even though most have never came out and watched the process.

I think turf's will definitely decrease your visible track. Is there anything else you do with the 110 where turf's would cause problems? It would be an expensive experiment to see if its worthwhile but at 7280lbs it just may be the ticket. One of my friends has turf's on a CUT JD and he says it leave almost no track on lawn but won't do anything at all in the mud.

I don't typically sit my machine on plywood for digging, only have plywood under my dirt pile to the side of the grave. However, there are times where the ground is so soft that I do have to put down 4x8 sheets to sit on while I'm digging. Most of the time though I only put a 2' x 4' piece under each out rigger. My riggers have street pads on them, so they do slide back and forth some, but I usually take it nice and slow. Going slow I can feel when it catches on a root or when my machine is about to start sliding, then I can readjust before it happens.
The biggest problem I have with making tracks or ruts is when moving the excess dirt. With a vault I have to make 5 loads (roughly 1/2 cubic yard each), so that's 10 times on the same tracks, plus another 2 times to backfill the hole and get out. Those 5 trips while loaded with all that weight can cause some damage, especially if you're driving over other graves. I had one today where the only way in and out was over 6 other graves and then meander about 150' back and forth between monuments and graves out to the road. I had to spread roughly a 1/2 yard to fill ruts in those 6 graves. That was with plywood pieces down. The plywood just sank into the ground.

As for the weight, 7,280 lbs sounds about right. I axled my whole truck and trailer on the scales one day and the trailer axles with the tractor loaded weighed in at 10,480 lbs. I really should have ran the hoe across by itself to get an accurate weight on it, but I didn't think about it at the time.

When I was setting concrete boxes, I was swinging them with the FEL. I have a utility bed on my truck that is rigged out for all of my setup equipment to keep everything in the dry. I was having to put those c-boxes in the bed, which is about 2 feet too short because of the front compartment that runs the full width of the truck. I would have to lift the box in the air, get off the tractor, back the truck under the swinging box, get back on the tractor, and set the box down into the bed, and then do the same thing at the cemetery to off load. I would use the backhoe for pulling the lids and putting them back on, but only the FEL for lifting them.

As for handling the plywood, what I do now is lay it across my FEL boom. I keep about 8 full 4' x 8' sheets, 6 2'x8' pieces, 4 2'x6' pieces, and 4 2'x4' pieces stacked neatly on my trailer. I always use 3 full sheets under my dirt pile and 2 small pieces under my outriggers, and then any more that I think I may need for driving on and/or to lean against monuments to keep the dirt off of them. I have seriously considered forks, but I've often thought that they may be more trouble than they are worth because I would have to remove them for moving dirt or backfilling, and then put them back on to load the plywood and haul it away.

I estimate (based on my recollection of pricing from the Internet) that it will cost $1,500 to $1,700 to put turf tires all the way around. That is definitely an expensive experiment. Technically, my hoe is only for grave digging, but I occasionally use it around the house and farm, and have done some odd jobs with it for other people such as setting septic tanks, digging trenches for field lines, setting culverts, etc. I think I could make due with turfs.

 

[Cataclysm]

I hear you! I already haul around too much stuff! Adding a set of forks into the mix is just something else to find some where to haul plus the extra weight. Im just over 36k. I would bet your over 26k.

I do have to say that you sound very competent and your rig sounds very well thought out.

It is amazing how a backhoe can beat the ground out with mutiple trips. I have had to come back and clean up many times.

Digging a grave is easy to say and much, much more difficult to actually do to everyones satisfaction, plus actually making a profit.

 

[MossRoad]

Went for a walk in the cemetery after dinner. The grave digger equipment was there today. Here's what they use.

A JD110TLB, an older Chevy 30 truck with a vault crane on the bed, and this trailer to tow the TLB.

The TLB has turfs on the back and R4s on the front. It also has a 4-in-1 bucket. There's a stack of plywood in the back of the Chevy that the TLB bucket is rested on to keep from disappearing overnight, I assume. That, or keep the truck there, or the tractor there, or something.

...

My guess is a larger dump truck towed the trailer and TLB there.

 

[MossRoad]

There was also a guy there setting a grave stone by himself. He had a nice little crank operated crane in the back of a pickup truck with straps for lifting the stone, and a big wheel dolly and wood to block the stone up to get the dolly under it on the road.

 

[KubotainNH]

I was thinking the same thing with using forks, even the bolt on the bucket kind are worth a try. Drill some holes through the plywood about 3 feet in the 8 foot way and loop some cable through that is the width of the forks so that the heavy end sticks out when lifted and the light end takes the weight on the bottom of the bucket (hard to describe). Drop one the long way, grab another, drive on the last one and drop that one until your path is built. May need to screw some metal on the back side so the cables don't pull through but it would save on the back. If the cable isn't super thick it should collapse down pretty well for stacking and pop back up for easy fork use.

As for the tires, my baby tractor makes a mess in the soft stuff with bar tires on the front but hardly shows when the turfs on it.

 

[jim_wilson]

I have a B3200 - with the BH77 backhoe. At one point I sat down and did a bunch of research to see what size buckets were available for this backhoe. What I came up with was a complete list of all the buckets that should fit on the BH77. This included a 36" bucket - which was originally available for the B21 tractor. Apparently Kubota has used the same bucket profile on a number of their different backhoe models.

Here's the list of buckets with Kubota part numbers:

The 24" bucket for the BH77 - is listed as the same part number for the BT751 hoe from the B21 tractor

24" bucket part number: BT1953A

Part BH77 BT751

10" bucket BT1950A BT1950A

12" bucket BT1951A BT1951A

16" bucket BT1952A BT1952A

24" bucket BT1953A BT1953A 75590-42401

30" bucket BT1955A

36" bucket BT1954A

OTHER INTERCHANGE:
according go www.hygearindustries.com - the b21 bucket will also apply to these other hoes:
Kubota B21, B20, BH76, BH75, BH65, B4672(A), BL4690(B), B4572, BL4590


Hope this helps.

I looked on the Kubota site at one point - and they did not have the 36" bucket listed as available any more. The 24" buckets however were still listed if I remember correctly - and they do pop up from time to time on Craigslist. I picked one up last year for a decent price.