Comparison L45 & L48 advice

[HighlandFarm]

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post! Very happy to have found this forum. I am in the market for my first tractor for our farm. My wife and I are restoring an overgrown 205 acre farm in the highlands of western Virginia. I've been researching tractors for quite awhile and narrowed it down to the Kubota TLB series. Probably a used L45 or L48. The L47 is nice but beyond our price range, and it sounds like the tier 4 may require more costly maintenance. I could probably be convinced of the L39 but worry that it is too small for our needs.

Here's the situation:

-Terrain: 205 acres of Appalachian mountain farm, hilly throughout, rocky terrain, with a mix of woods and pasture. Old access roads need to be cleared, and eventually used for selective logging.

-Tractor tasks: I need one machine to serve as a swiss army knife for many tasks: trenching, digging foundations, removing rocks from fields, skidding timber, lifting logs onto a sawmill (with backhoe thumb or grapple), grading a driveway with boxblade, using PTO attachments (brush hogging & wood chipping). We get a few solid snows each year, so we'll also use the tractor for plowing occasionally. I am not in a position to buy and maintain multiple machines - it needs to be one multipurpose tractor, which is why the L45 and L48 look so enticing. We are more than an hour from the nearest dealer, so the durability and low maintenance are key.

My questions:

1) With the additional weight and stiffness, are there disadvantages of the L45/L48 compared with a similarly-powered "non-TLB" model? Is fuel consumption significantly higher? Issues on step terrain? Do they tear up the ground significantly more?

2) Storage dimension: does anyone have specific information on the stored length of the L48 or L45? I have seen that the "transport length" of the L45 is 233.9 inches, nearly 20 feet long! However I presume that is with the backhoe extended so it can be strapped to a trailer. Does anyone know its length with the backhoe in a storage position? Does the backhoe turn sideways like you see on full-size TLB? From photos, I see that it is center-mounted, so maybe not feasible to store it in the side position. I need to make sure this will fit inside the dry storage I have available. Height is not a major issue.

3) With the backhoe removed, how good are these machines with 3-point PTO attachments? Any difference compared with non-TLB models? Obviously the FEL isn't removable, but I suppose that won't impact useability of the rear PTO.

Obviously I'm new to this, and would appreciate your advice! I know some folks will say to buy one tractor and one excavator, but I really don't want to own and maintain two machines - this is why I've settled on the Kubota TLB series.

Thanks in advance! Looking forward to being part of this community!

 

[lamarbur]

Many years ago I bought a new L48 from Messicks in Pa. Machine was awesome. I never had a complaint and the machine never let me down. the L 48 will do every thing you posted and then some. As far as 3 pt such as rotory mower, the L 48 is a tad slower speed wise, The 48 is a fairly heavy machine with HST transmission. Only reason I got rid of it was between the state of Ct and town we live in, they both considered it a commercial machine and we were taxed to death on it, to the point something had to give. As an example. I bought a 2012 Ram laramie longhorn pickup in Oct of 2011. six months ago I paid $753.00 in personal property tax or as most New England states call it, excise tax. A truck that was almost six years old. I don't want to remember what the 48 costs. And you wonder why Ct is on the verge of bancruptcy.

 

[mike69440]

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post! Very happy to have found this forum. I am in the market for my first tractor for our farm. My wife and I are restoring an overgrown 205 acre farm in the highlands of western Virginia. I've been researching tractors for quite awhile and narrowed it down to the Kubota TLB series. Probably a used L45 or L48. The L47 is nice but beyond our price range, and it sounds like the tier 4 may require more costly maintenance. I could probably be convinced of the L39 but worry that it is too small for our needs.

Here's the situation:

-Terrain: 205 acres of Appalachian mountain farm, hilly throughout, rocky terrain, with a mix of woods and pasture. Old access roads need to be cleared, and eventually used for selective logging.

-Tractor tasks: I need one machine to serve as a swiss army knife for many tasks: trenching, digging foundations, removing rocks from fields, skidding timber, lifting logs onto a sawmill (with backhoe thumb or grapple), grading a driveway with boxblade, using PTO attachments (brush hogging & wood chipping). We get a few solid snows each year, so we'll also use the tractor for plowing occasionally. I am not in a position to buy and maintain multiple machines - it needs to be one multipurpose tractor, which is why the L45 and L48 look so enticing. We are more than an hour from the nearest dealer, so the durability and low maintenance are key.

My questions:

1) With the additional weight and stiffness, are there disadvantages of the L45/L48 compared with a similarly-powered "non-TLB" model? Is fuel consumption significantly higher? Issues on step terrain? Do they tear up the ground significantly more?

2) Storage dimension: does anyone have specific information on the stored length of the L48 or L45? I have seen that the "transport length" of the L45 is 233.9 inches, nearly 20 feet long! However I presume that is with the backhoe extended so it can be strapped to a trailer. Does anyone know its length with the backhoe in a storage position? Does the backhoe turn sideways like you see on full-size TLB? From photos, I see that it is center-mounted, so maybe not feasible to store it in the side position. I need to make sure this will fit inside the dry storage I have available. Height is not a major issue.

3) With the backhoe removed, how good are these machines with 3-point PTO attachments? Any difference compared with non-TLB models? Obviously the FEL isn't removable, but I suppose that won't impact useability of the rear PTO.

Obviously I'm new to this, and would appreciate your advice! I know some folks will say to buy one tractor and one excavator, but I really don't want to own and maintain two machines - this is why I've settled on the Kubota TLB series.

Thanks in advance! Looking forward to being part of this community!

No argument on value of a TLB. HST+ on the L45 is so nice even a gear guy can like it.
1. Ag machine and L48 has bigger tires, Tire size on L45 should be 10-16.5 up front, 43 x 16-20 rear. Why they are smaller, I don't know. Good on fuel. Get wheel spacers and chains.

2. For what a TLB can do, they are small and maneuverable. If you ca fit a full size car 1/2 ton P/U it will fit fine.

3. Ok, but inconvenient and generally under-powered.

Yes for the size of your property this guy is saying to buy one tractor and one excavator and a dump truck.

Consider small all terrain Tele-handler and rent Excavator when needed? Size would be an issue to store inside however.

 

[Fallon]

My 5k lbs L4060 with loaded R4s was leaving prints in the relatively hard ground/grass unloading a trailer lastnight. Not ruts at all, but you could tell it had been there. AG tires are going to be worse than R4s. The heavier the machine the worse it will be. It's all about weight & tires there. The better the traction, the worse it will tear things up.

A given TBL will be heavier than a similar sized AG machine (a CUT). That means it can do more, but will also tear up the ground more. The AG machine will have bigger tires regardless of going with R1 or R4 tires. They are focused mostly on pulling & traction. A TBL has slightly smaller tires & is built stronger. It's focused on lifting & digging ending up with a stronger & heavier machine.

Moving that extra weight around will take extra fuel, but it's not going to be hideous. That extra weight will make it a much more efficient machine when working.

A L47 has 47hp & weighs 7klbs. My L4060 has 40hp & weighs 5klbs loaded & with loader. The L6060 is the same exact machine as a L4060 only with bigger tires & 60hp. The L47 will lift just shy of 3k lbs, my loader is only rated to 1,800lbs. My guess is depending on the task you'd see between 0 & 15% more fuel usage.

Also, don't worth about tier 4 emissions stuff. They have been out a while now & there arent many posts at all about problems with them. Yes they add complexity & cost, but they also make the machines nicer to operate.

I'd have thought about a TBL over my L4060 if I could have gotten a factory cab. But I don't need much digging & was mostly upgrading for a cab.

 

[HighlandFarm]

Hi Fallon, Mike and Lamarbur. Thanks for your feedback. Very helpful!

Does anyone have the exact length dimensions an L45 or L48 in storage? I really need to figure this out, because it's definitely going to be a tight fit.

@Lambur: You said the L48 was a bit slower with the 3-point attachments. Do you mean actual ground speed due to the weight of the machine? I figure RPM is identical, since it is 540 on all machines. How difficult was it to remove the backhoe and install other attachments?

@Mike69440: The claimed horsepower on the L45 is 32HP, comparable with the L4060 in the 40-45 horsepower range. Do you think the 32HP is sufficient for a wood chipper, manure spreader, brush-hog, and other light applications? I really won't need to do heavy ag work - my fields are too steep and rocky for row crops!

@Fallon - interesting to hear the tier 4 stuff isn't a big deal. Do you mean they are nicer to operate because the fuel particles are filtered? Any other advantages? I had previously heard of this being mostly a hastle to deal with - nice to hear some positive feedback.

Thanks everyone. All other perspectives would be much appreciated!

 

[lamarbur]

ground speed is slower using 3pt equipment with the L48. As far as removing/adding the hoe, after a short period, maybe three times on and off, it becomes second nature and the job is done in minutes. I found being on level ground on/off is much easier

 

[Fallon]

Hi Fallon, Mike and Lamarbur. Thanks for your feedback. Very helpful!

Does anyone have the exact length dimensions an L45 or L48 in storage? I really need to figure this out, because it's definitely going to be a tight fit.

@Lambur: You said the L48 was a bit slower with the 3-point attachments. Do you mean actual ground speed due to the weight of the machine? I figure RPM is identical, since it is 540 on all machines. How difficult was it to remove the backhoe and install other attachments?

@Mike69440: The claimed horsepower on the L45 is 32HP, comparable with the L4060 in the 40-45 horsepower range. Do you think the 32HP is sufficient for a wood chipper, manure spreader, brush-hog, and other light applications? I really won't need to do heavy ag work - my fields are too steep and rocky for row crops!

@Fallon - interesting to hear the tier 4 stuff isn't a big deal. Do you mean they are nicer to operate because the fuel particles are filtered? Any other advantages? I had previously heard of this being mostly a hastle to deal with - nice to hear some positive feedback.

Thanks everyone. All other perspectives would be much appreciated!

I see my L4060 Regen periodically, but it has no operational impact other than you should keep the RPMs high while it's doing it & not shutdown the machine until it's done. Depends on how you run it on how often it regens. First one was pushing 50 hours. At 130 hours or so now g think there have been at least 3 total so far, possibly 4-5. There is no soot or nasty fumes comming out if the exhaust. I hear the tier 4 stuff is slightly more fuel efficient as well, even with occasionally dumping a lot of fuel into the exhaust for a regen.

Tier 4 emissions parts do add a couple grand to the price of a machine & obviously won't be cheap to replace. But the emissions stuff is suppose to be warrantied for 8-10 years or so. There have been a few reports of issues (handled under warranty), but given the decent number of high usage machines out there there have been pretty few issues.

TBLs tend to have shorter & wider tires than AG machines. Some of that is R4 vs R1 tires, but a lot is the fact AG machines are traction engines designed primarily for pulling. TBLs are more designed to haul a hoe around & push a loader, less for pure pulling.

As for HP... How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? You need to talk about specifically impliments & tasks for that answer. My 32hp L3200 pulled my 7' flail,so does my 40hp L4060. The L4060 goes a bit faster while doing it though. The 3,500 (loaded) L3200 actually roaded faster than my 5,000lbs (loaded) L4060 despite having 8 less HP due to hills & the extra weight.

Weight defines what a tractor can do. HP just defines how fast it will do it. The only major exception to that rule is with PTO impliments like a mower. 540 is just the RPM the PTO spins at. Engine RPM to get that differs. My L4060 is 2,300 RPM on the engine or so. Some machines don't even break 2k RPM to get 540 PTO.

32hp is plenty for a 48" lawnmower, not enough for a 8' rotary cutter (commonly called Brush Hog). 32 engine HP was plenty for my 7' flail in grass & light brush. But at double or triple the weight of machine to move around might be a bit light.

 

[rScotty]

First of all.... any tractor is going to be better than none. Unfortunately, the perfect machine doesn't exist. If you don't have much tractor experience, then rent or lease or borrow - or figure out some way to get some hours while you learn. Other than your house, your tractor with it's implements will be your most expensive investment for a long time. Plan on spending real dollars.

You are going to find out that tractors tend to be tippy - especially so when are small tractors equipped with relatively powerful front end loaders and back hoes. So if your land is hilly and rocky, you will probably find that sidehill stability will be the limiting factor. Not HP, or attachments, or lift, or tire type, or price, or transmission....the limitation will simply be how that particular tractor works when the ground is rocky and sloping. Look for a machine having big, wide R4 type industrial tires with the strong sidewalls. You'll also want them mounted as wide as possible.

With 200+ acres of rocky & hilly land I'd be looking larger, not smaller. And consider that if you have a quarter mile or more in roads to clear and maintain with timber, rocks, and streams,then you'll probably want implements that fit the heavier category II 3 point hitch rather than the category I 3 pt hitch found on most 30 to 40 hp utility tractors. BTW, a category II hitch can use category I implements, but the reverse is not true.

You'll be time ahead if you get a good tractor. This is going to be your main tool for much of the next few years. Spend if you can; you'll not regret it. If you can, try out a few before you buy. Knowing what I do 50 years later. if I were in your position, I'd go so far as to rent machines for the weekend a couple of times before deciding.
good luck,
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

Just realized I didn't answer your specific questions:


1) "With the additional weight and stiffness, are there disadvantages of the L45/L48 compared with a similarly-powered "non-TLB" model? Is fuel consumption significantly higher? Issues on step terrain? Do they tear up the ground significantly more?"

Fuel consumption should be the same. The L45/L48 with the wide R4 industial tires are generally more side stable than a tractor with Ag tires. The TLB models also have a lower center of gravity. I could be wrong here, but in my experience TLBs are designed with the expectation that they will be used on moderately sloping or broken ground, while farm and lawn tractors are designed for comfort on flatter fields. If you are just working without spinning the tires, The R4 industrial tires don't tear up the ground as badly as the Ag tires. If you spin a tire, either one will tear up the ground horribly. But mostly it depends on the ground. If you have loose soil, the R4 industrials are better. If you have sticky clay then Ag tires offer more traction. But regardless, the trick is to not spin a tire.

2) "Storage dimension: does anyone have specific information on the stored length of the L48 or L45? I have seen that the "transport length" of the L45 is 233.9 inches, nearly 20 feet long! However I presume that is with the backhoe extended so it can be strapped to a trailer. Does anyone know its length with the backhoe in a storage position? Does the backhoe turn sideways like you see on full-size TLB? From photos, I see that it is center-mounted, so maybe not feasible to store it in the side position. I need to make sure this will fit inside the dry storage I have available. Height is not a major issue."

Yes, the backhoe turns full sideways and you can store it that way. You don't save all that much length though. Looking out the window this morning at our M59, I'd say that sideways position saves about six feet in length. Does it need to store inside? I put a heavy cotton tarp over the operator's station, bungy it down, and call it good.

3) "With the backhoe removed, how good are these machines with 3-point PTO attachments? Any difference compared with non-TLB models? Obviously the FEL isn't removable, but I suppose that won't impact useability of the rear PTO."
The 3pt on the TLB is about average. More than strong enough, and well balanced, but the 3pt arms themselves do not have the adjustable arms that you find on the best 3pts on the market. Of course, most farm tractors don't have those adjustable arms either. But after you hook up enough heavy implements you will wish that all tractors did. A really good 3pt hitch has telescoping lower arms, quick attach ends on those arms, leveling screws on both of the vertical lift arms, adjustable stabilizer bars in addition to adjustable check chains, and some even have a hydraulic top link. Hardly anything has all of these features, and they can all be added eventually. I merely say this because because 3pt hitches sure do vary.
Most tractors need weight in the back of the machine to use their 3pt hitch implements effectively. Removing the heavy backhoe hurts the TLB more than an Ag tractor. Consider adding wheel weights if you are going to do a lot of ground-engaging 3pt work.

No, the FEL loader isn't removeable on the TLB tractors. But frankly, people rarely remove the entire FEL on any tractor. It is common to drop the bucket off, though. That only takes a moment, doesn't involve hydraulic fittings, and removes a large part of the weight. If the bucket has the optional SSQA attachment method this just involves throwing two levers and backing away from the bucket....or attaching a different style bucket.

4. "....I would appreciate your advice! I know some folks will say to buy one tractor and one excavator, but I really don't want to own and maintain two machines - this is why I've settled on the Kubota TLB series."

One last word from this Kubota TLB owner...Get as big and new as you an afford. And be SURE to get the hydraulic thumb on the backhoe bucket. Nothing else handles timber chores half as well.

Good luck.

 

[Fallon]

No, the FEL loader isn't removeable on the TLB tractors. But frankly, people rarely remove the entire FEL on any tractor. It is common to drop the bucket off, though. That only takes a moment, doesn't involve hydraulic fittings, and removes a large part of the weight. If the bucket has the optional SSQA attachment method this just involves throwing two levers and backing away from the bucket....or attaching a different style bucket.

I've owned 2 Kubotas over the past 4ish years. Allegedly they have easy quick disconnect loaders that some people can remove or mount in 5 minutes or so. I couldn't tell you as I've never bothered. I dump the bucket all the time. Actually I use pallet forks more than the bucket & store the machine without anything on the SSQA. That way I can grab the right impliment when I roll rather than having the wrong one on to start.