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  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    12
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts
    Tractor
    Kubota B2710

    Default Position Control

    I have read the previous dialog on position control from the B7500 v. B2410 thread, so I know what it is and how 3pt height is set on the units with and without position control. Additionally, I have read what Muhammad says:

    The 3*point hitch should have a high lift capacity for
    starters, and also position control is a feature that should be
    available or come standard on a tractor, unless it is an
    economy model stripped of features to be offered at a low
    price. Position control will allow you to set the 3*point hitch to
    a specific height and hold it there. Without position control,
    the 3*point hitch leaks down from the set level. If you wont
    be using the 3*point hitch much, this feature may not matter,
    but for frequent or heavy use of the 3*point hitch, position
    control is almost a must*have feature, and will improve your
    productivity.


    What I really want to know is how bad is it not having position control? What cannot be done without position control? If it is almost a "must have" feature, then why would kubota make $10,000+ tractors without it, rendering those units inadequate in 3pt hitch capability? Does the 3pt hitch really "leak down" on the 7500 like Muhammad says? I am trying to get down to the essentials of position control to figure out if I need it.

    Lastly, this is my first post. I have been reading this site for a few weeks, educating myself along the way. This site is terrific. Thanks to Muhammad and to everyone who posts. If this site were a PTO, it'd be <font color=red> LIVE! </font color=red>

    DLC








  2. #2
    Epic Contributor Bird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Posts
    39,493
    Location
    Texas

    Default Re: Position Control

    dlc, no, it's not a "must have". I used a B7100 for 4 years without it; didn't have power steering either. And I sure got a lot of work done with that little B7100. But they sure are nice features to have to make the work go faster and easier. For me at least, the times that the position control is most important (but still not absolutely necessary) is when I'm using the box blade.

    Bird

  3. #3
    Administrator Muhammad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 1998
    Posts
    14,976
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Tractor
    None currently

    Default Re: Position Control

    Actually, DLC, that's one topic I want to revise, elaborate on, and clear up in a future revision of the book. The explanation isn't as clear as I'd like it to be, and can be misinterpreted, and like in this case, it doesn't really apply to the B7500. I also want to include a few examples of tasks that position control makes easier, or more effective. Mowing of many types, grading, scraping, etc.

    Position control has more precise positioning of the 3-point hitch. Without position control you don't have the set positions but rather a lever with up, down, and middle/float (depends on the tractor, as some have float as "up", some have it as down. The B7500 is up/float, hold, and down --- if I remember correctly)... for tasks like mowing and plowing, position control is a major plus because you can set a specific height with position control and the hitch stays there, doesn't float up or leak down. Without position control, it can move up, sometimes down, depending on the tractor's hydraulics and how the 3PH is configured. From hearing from many different tractor owners, the performance and "habits" of a 3PH without PC can vary depending on the model. I will be clearing this up with a more complete description of PC in a future revision. Also, similar changes to the draft control description because that, too, can perform differently from model to model and brand to brand.

    What tasks do you plan to do? It makes a big difference in some tasks, but not quite as much (if any) in others. Some owners can't live without PC, and some work around it. Some have even traded their tractors in for ones with PC after using one without it for a short while.

    I'd suggest you try both a B7500 and a B2410 (B2410 has PC) and see how the PC would affect the tractor's performance in the tasks you plan to do. This is a major purchase, and buying the right tractor with the right options is a good idea. [img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    BTW, GlueGuy was posting a short while back about the 3PH on the B7500 --- might want to search for "position control" to find the thread. He mentioned adding PC to a B7500. Not sure if he has made a decision on that, though.


  4. #4
    Veteran Member GlueGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    1,659
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area California (CA)
    Tractor
    Kubota B7500

    Default Re: Position Control

    Muhammad's description here is much closer to the way the 3PH control works on the B7500. The three positions are up, hold, and down.

    When the lever is in the up position, it applies hydraulic pressure to raise the 3PH (or until you hit the top limit).

    In the middle position, it "holds" the 3PH in the current position, but still allows the 3PH to float "up". It does not leak down.

    The down position lowers the 3PH to a lower hold position or to the bottom limit.

    I've been looking into alternative ways to achieve PC on the B7500. Am currently pursuing retrofitting the PC from a B7500DTN to either the B7500DT or the B7500HSD. My local dealer is very interested in this. Turns out he sold a "bunch" of B7500's to some local contractors that don't know how to work without PC. Wants to retrofit about a dozen of them.

    If this doesn't pan out (he's being frustrated by local rep), then I will go with what was plan A, and that is to add a position indicator. Mechanism will be the same, you will just have to monitor an indicator.

    The GlueGuy

  5. #5
    Veteran Member GlueGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    1,659
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area California (CA)
    Tractor
    Kubota B7500

    Default Re: Position Control

    I should also add that I've never had PC, so I guess I don't know what I'm missing [img]/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif[/img]. OTOH- it doesn't seem like rocket science, so I wonder what all the fuss is about....

    The GlueGuy

  6. #6
    Super Member
    Rest in Peace
    frank_f15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    6,033
    Location
    BUFFALO ,NEW YORK AREA
    Tractor
    kubota b2400- R4 tires

    Default Re: Position Control

    i have a b2400(older model of the 2410) it has pc. is it absoulty needed? NO! is it useful? yes! in certain applications it can be veryhandy. would i upgrade just to get it? no! but if $$ is not a major concern, then get it. u can never have to much control of your machine.


  7. #7

    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    176
    Location
    North County San Diego
    Tractor
    Kubota B2910

    Default Re: Position Control

    There have been many posts on this subject. A search would turn up lots of information including a couple of posts from me saying that I traded in a B7500 with 30 hours for a new B2910 primarily because I wanted the position control (probably the one Muhammed is referring to). Depending on what you do with the tractor, it can be a major help. Of course you can always get along without it; just like you can get along without a tractor at all! If you do things that require setting the height of an implement (e.g. mow, rake, blade), then the PC makes a huge difference. Sure, you can adjust the implement to any height, but then you are reluctant to raise the implement when you turn or go over a bump because it requires an effort to get it back to the "proper" height. I simply adjust the implement to the height I want while sitting on level bare surface, then set the sliding stop. Then when I raise the implement for whatever reason, I can return to the original "set" position without even looking back. Overall this saves a ton of time. Plus, it is safer because you are more likely to raise the implement when you should. Another point, when you are in a field with grass/weeds all around, it's hard to judge just how high you are setting the implement with out being able to see bare ground. Again, with the PC and stop set, you don't have to worry about it. So, if you only need to raise and lower things, PC may not be worth the $, but if you need to "position" things, it's worth a whole lot of money! When I bought the B7500, I just assumed that it had PC. When I figured out it didn't, I was pretty upset and finally traded it. Other than the lack of PC, the B7500 is a fine machine.

    Larry...

  8. #8

    Default Re: Position Control

    Regarding position control. What is up/float? On a B7500 can you get the 3ph to actually hold without floating that is will it apply down pressure. I assume that up is just pull the lever back and up it goes.

    You indicate that the B7500 3ph once set at a specific height will tend to drift down. Is this true? It I were to set the blade 2 inches off the ground would be make its way to the ground on its own accord?

    thanks


  9. #9

    Default Re: Position Control

    Strike my last post. I did not read the follow on post that nicely explains how the PC works on the B7500.

    Thank you.

    Gill


  10. #10
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    408
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Tractor
    Previously: Kubota B2710. Now Deere 3520

    Default Re: Position Control

    Muhammad,

    Not to argue with the master, but I think you are going to confuse a lot of people. The 3pt hitch can float up with position control. That is a good thing, because I want my tiller to be able to bounce when it hits a rock. It's draft control that locks the 3pt hitch at a certain height.

    So basic 3pt hitch -&gt; Up. Hold, which allows the impliment to float up, but shouldn't "leak down" unless the impliment's too heavy. And down, which releases the valve on the hitch's lifting cylinder, and could be called "leak".

    Position control just means the tractor will raise or lower the 3pt hitch until the extension of the cylinder corresponds to the position of the 3pt hitch lever. Once the cylinder reaches that extension, it acts the same as a basic 3pt hitch control on hold. The only real difference is that if the impliment's to heavy, and "leaks down", it will continuously trigger the hydraulics to try and maintain the hitch height. Again, this means that unless the position is fully raised, the hitch can still float up. If the tractor senses the 3pt hitch is higher than the position lever setting (ie. you lowered the lever), then the cylinder "leaks" until the cylinder extention corresponds to the lever position.

    I think what you are referring to Muhammad, when you say the hitch can't float or leak, is draft control. Draft control lets you essentially lock the height of the 3pt hitch. This would be a bad thing with a tiller, but I'm told it's valuable plowing and such. kubota only offers draft control on tractors larger than my B2710, so I have no experience using it. I assume it somehow involves tethering the lifting lever for the 3pt hitch to the end of the hitch's lifting cylinder. Then the hitch can't float higher than the cylinder's extension. The only other way I can envision achieving this would be to use two cylinders to control the height of the 3pt hitch. One to push up, one to push down. Seems redundant.

    Since Kubota offers tractors with all three of these hitch control options, they keep their terms strait. I don't know if JD or NH offer tractors with just the basic 3pt hitch control. If they don't, they might use the terms "position control" and "draft control" interchangably.

    Todd


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