BX vs. 42" x 30" x 510 foot utility ditch.

[Singlecoil]

So I got a good deal on digging a 510 foot utility ditch. $400. I told them I could backfill it myself since I didn't know how long it would take the electric company and the phone company to get out and lay their respective products. I knew it had to be 42" deep, tapered to 30" at the vault ends. I was a little surprised at how wide it ended up, but they did dig it with one of these...

Ok, so the ditch ended up looking like this after the lines were laid...

So I figured my BX-24 and I had our work cut out for us. No problem. We had lots of time. After all, the well drilling company weren't coming until TOMORROW! Thank you Mr. Utility Company for taking twice as long to get the conduit in the ground as you said you would. Did I mention that it rained heavily last night here in Western Washington? Terrific timing. Now the spoil is heavier and the tractor has less traction. I figured I would use the box blade on the back instead of the backhoe to help smooth things out. Two hours later, I had the crucial part done which was the area the well company needed access to.

But this was taking a long time as the piles were too big to push into the trench. I had to take bites out of them with the loader and dump them into the trench. Were the piles lower and smaller, I think I could just push them. Backing into them with the blade didn't help either; not enough traction. Then I had an idea... What if I just put the tractor on it's side and use the loader to push the dirt into the trench? Surely this would go much faster.

Lol. Unfortunately the engine didn't like that angle too much. Luckily I didn't get hurt when the thing went over. As is evidenced in the picture, I didn't even get a chance to get the loader down even though my hand was on the lever and I consider myself to have excellent reflexes. It happens fast. The engine was still running so I shut it off and licked my wounds. I spent about an hour trying to jack up the roll bar with my car jack but I was getting nowhere. I then called my soon-to-be neighbors (will be when the house is built) and asked for help as I knew they had a larger Deere tractor and a small bulldozer. The guy happily pulled up in a small tricked-out Jeep with a remote controlled winch and had me righted in no time.
I checked the oil and it was fine so I attempted to start the engine. It cranked about a half a turn then went back. The same thing repeated every time I cranked it. Looking at the fan belt, the engine would turn one way about 2 inches of fan belt travel, then go back to the starting point. I opened the oil filler cap and looked for action in there but didn't see any parts moving when I attempted to crank it. My neighbor thought it would be fine and that I would just have to let it sit for a while for the oil to drain down as it was likely hydro-locked. I certainly hope my 90 hour engine isn't toast. I was thinking of going back out tomorrow and attempting to manually rotate the engine with a wrench. Does anybody know what socket I need for a BX-24/2350?
Thanks.

 

[alchemysa]

Then I had an idea... What if I just put the tractor on it's side and use the loader to push the dirt into the trench? Surely this would go much faster.
Thanks.

What do you call that? Side stroke?.. And you're right, that is a big trench for a little pipe! Glad you weren't hurt. Was the bucket empty or full? And did you really need to have the bucket that high?

 

[Singlecoil]

What do you call that? Side stroke?.. And you're right, that is a big trench for a little pipe! Glad you weren't hurt. Was the bucket empty or full? And did you really need to have the bucket that high?

Full bucket, and I'm pretty sure, no it didn't need to be that high I was getting in a rhythm of taking slices and dumping them in the trench in an arc. Unfortunately on this swing I had just lifted a load of dirt and the left front wheel ran over the spoil pile at the perfect moment. My coffee cup, which was on my left, ended up about 6 feet past the tractor on my right. That shows how fast it went over; it got launched.

 

[Qrazy]

Wow....I am glad you didn't get hurt! Here's to hoping your BX survives with little to no worse for the wear....

GL

 

[mazurrj]

you might need to clean the fuel injectors to get the engine started. You need combustion to get the crank going and most likely from engine being on side, oil could have gotten in fuel injectors and you are getting no spark. The starter alone does not alway crank the engine like in a gasoline engine. Desiel you need spark too. Or remove glow plugs and reinstall incase some type vapor lock.

 

[RayCo]

My God!!! That's really awful seeing that, but I think it's outstanding that you have a sense of humor about it. When you felt it rolling, was your instinct to try to jump off the tractor, or to hold on knowing it'd just fall to the side and the ROPS would do its thing? Did you have the seatbelt on? For me, ROPS up = seatbelt on. ROPS down (rare) = seatbelt off.

I also really, really hope that it fires back up and has nothing but a bruise here and there on the sheetmetal, err, sheetplastic.

Also, why did it roll? You're on flat ground there. Was it just a matter of having the loader up high and your front right tire slipped into the ditch?

 

[MOPAULY]

Nice way to hide the drama. I was reading through, following the story until wham!, you see the tractor on it's side. Hopefully there was no damage done and it will fire back up. You may have shortenend bearing life a little, depending on how long it was laying on it's side while running.

 

[Berniep]

Man that looks scary, congrats on the courage to post the pics. Definitely got some hydro lock in there, should drain down. Personally I would want to turn it once by hand if possible in case a cylinder has a little too much in it and another fires,(btw injectors supply fuel not spark) could bend a rod. Check the hydraulic fluid too I bet some drained out.

 

[mazurrj]

Man that looks scary, congrats on the courage to post the pics. Definitely got some hydro lock in there, should drain down. Personally I would want to turn it once by hand if possible in case a cylinder has a little too much in it and another fires,(btw injectors supply fuel not spark) could bend a rod. Check the hydraulic fluid too I bet some drained out.

Bernie,

yes iknow the injectors supply fuel, i guess i meant to say need combustion to crank. you need spark and fuel. unfortunaly had same problem, engine would not turn, and fuel injectors had to be cleaned because was geting no combustion. like you said guess hopefully vapor lock.

 

[tcarter1]

I'm glad you lived to tell the story. This is a good example of how easy CUTs are to roll, even on relatively flat ground. I'm betting your engine is fine.

 

[The Gardener]

Luckily I didn't get hurt when the thing went over.

We are all very relieved to read that you escaped unharmed. That had to be a jolt to the body, though. Be absolutely sure you are fine. If you are getting any headaches whatsoever, I hope you will visit a doctor and not let them pass on their own.

The Gardener

 

[The Gardener]

This is a good example of how easy CUTs are to roll, even on relatively flat ground.

Yes indeed. I think the uneven terrain as pictured and the challenges associated with this particular trench would have been best handled by the excavator from beginning to end. Ideally, a bulldozer with its blade angled would have made fast work of this effort.

I am big supporter of hiring our larger jobs to larger equipment.

 

[SkunkWerX]

WOW!!

First things first, glad you weren't injured!
Secondly, to all of us, this is proof that it certainly can happen, and we should always take care when using an FEL.

And, Lastly, getting it to run again.
The best of luck to you with getting it back to running condition.
As suggested, check all fluids, engine oil, hydraulic fluid and don't forget cooling system too. If any are low, then it's good to determine where it may have gone. Hydraulic fluid probably would vent to outside.

Sounds like it was on it's side for a while while you got help.
Typically you hear people say let it sit for 12 or 24 hours.

I'd first loosen injectors and/or glow plugs and do the manual crank thing.

BUT First, try without loosening anything, if it feels heavily resistant, then loosen enough to relieve compression, and re-try.
If it turns easier at that point, you will know right away that it was some sort of compression lock-up situation, and can then breathe a little easier when you later hit the ignition key.

Please keep us posted!

 

[DiezNutz]

you need spark and fuel. unfortunaly had same problem, engine would not turn, and fuel injectors had to be cleaned because was geting no combustion.

Ahh but there's the really clever part... you don't need spark, there is no spark. Only air (oxygen), compression (heat), and fuel = combustion. Hydro-lock interferes with compression. I can't think of any reason why injectors would need to be cleaned, as they will flush themselves clean. OTOH, oil-soaked glow plugs can't get enough heat to the fuel for initial combustion. The glow plugs may need to be pulled and cleaned. My guess is that's what you meant to say, or, while you were in the process of pulling and cleaning injectors, the real problem (hydro-lock) subsided on its own.

At any rate, file this under "What NOT to do to your Kubota" . Hope everything turns out OK...

 

[California]

It's hydro-locked. Does that model have a compression release? Crank it with the compression released to clear the cylinders.

 

[KeithInSpace]

Very glad you're OK. I notice how tipsy my machine seems with the BH attached, but it is a bit more stable with the box-blade. Not sure I would have expected you to tip over, but that is the recipe for such a thing to happen...mounds of soil all around, wet ground to sink into, raised bucket, etc.

That could happen to anybody trying to complete such a large task as that. You get to 'whipping around' by way of your built confidence, hit a very small tree stump or something. Doesn't take much.

I notice your signature "neighbors as far away as possible"...I'm sure that means you like to spread your arms on some acreage rather than be all butts and elbows on a postage stamp. Becuase I'm certain you're pretty glad to have some helpful neighbors now!

Just out of curiosity: Did anything bend? I'm sure you're engine will be fine once you get it cranking, but I'm curious if you went over pretty hard (as it seems you did) how the ROPS fared or if your fender hit the ground and broke or anything like that. Not that I personally plan on going over (again), but I'm impressed that your machine looks like a cinder-block on its side with no marks to show for it. Quite impressive.

 

[SkunkWerX]

Ahh but there's the really clever part... you don't need spark, there is no spark. Only air (oxygen), compression (heat), and fuel = combustion. Hydro-lock interferes with compression. I can't think of any reason why injectors would need to be cleaned, as they will flush themselves clean. OTOH, oil-soaked glow plugs can't get enough heat to the fuel for initial combustion. The glow plugs may need to be pulled and cleaned. My guess is that's what you meant to say, or, while you were in the process of pulling and cleaning injectors, the real problem (hydro-lock) subsided on its own.

At any rate, file this under "What NOT to do to your Kubota" . Hope everything turns out OK...

I agree with you, DN. But back to his symptoms, he said it would barely crank, not even like a full revolution then nothing?
If it were oil soaked glow plugs, it might crank, but not fire. In the summer, if it cranked for 10 or 15 seconds, then, more than likely, it would fire up, or try to, even without glow plug heat.

Then something else dawned on me! It layed on side for a while, before being uprighted....so...maybe...the battery lost the electrolyte, and there isn't enough cranking amps to turn it over??
Just another off-the-wall thing to check on, battery fluid level and charge.
Batteries do have gas vent holes, maybe it slowly dripped over the time it took to get it back on it's feet?
Again, just a thought as to why it wouldn't crank.

 

[Singlecoil]

Back in business!
First of all, yes I was wearing the seatbelt and I'm glad I was. I instinctively put my right leg down to stop the roll, and I'm lucky I didn't twist my knee. I was hanging by the seatbelt after it went over. I had just scooped the top half of a pile, then the left front wheel ran over the bottom half of the pile as I was lifting the loader. Bad combination. It went over so fast my coffee cup got launched about 6 feet from the cup holder.

I went out there today and checked all the fluids (they were fine) then took the grill guard, cowling, and hood off. These tractors don't have a single bolt on the flywheel, they have 5. I was still able to get a wrench on one of them and manually turn the flywheel. First I loosened the injectors to let the pressure out. It was hard to turn, but I could hear fluid gurgling at certain points. The more I did it, the easier it got.

I then attempted to call my dealer and ask a technician if I would be safe to attempt a start. My dealer said the techs were too busy to take calls. I explained that I just wanted to talk to a guy for 2 minutes and that if I brought the tractor in they would be even busier. He said that they have a 4 week wait. I then got transferred to the general manager but only got his voicemail. I called another dealer and talked to a tech who advised that I pull either the injectors or the glowplugs and crank the engine. He said I had oil on top of the pistons and oil would fly out of the glowplug hole as it was cranked. I used a 7mm wrench to remove the electrodes and a 10mm wrench to remove the glowplugs.

I then used the wrench to manually turn the crankshaft and indeed oil did fly out of number one. The other two were dry. Small drops kept flying out at certain points on the crankshaft revolution. This was getting time consuming but I had an idea. I reattached the injector lines, left the glowplugs off and turned the key. Now geysers of fuel and air came out of each cylinder and number one was quickly cleared of oil. I reinstalled the glowplugs and it fired right up. This 3 hour repair job could have been done in 10 minutes had I just removed the glowplugs, cranked the engine, wiped up the oil, then reinstalled the glowplugs. I'll know next time.

The only damage was one dent about the size of a quarter on the side of the metal floor where it landed on a rock, and a scratch on the ROPS where I tried to jack it up.

You're right about the helpful neighbors, Keith. I am so tired of having to go next door to have my current neighbors turn down their stereo/TV. The neighbors at the new place couldn't be any nicer and their house is about 1000 feet from where ours will be.

 

[KeithInSpace]

You rock. We are all very glad you shared your unfortunate experience with us. It reminds us of several things:

Lesson #1: It happens. It's OK. Whatever you do, somebody's done it before.
Lesson #2: It happens fast.
Lesson #3: Stow your tray tables and put your seatbacks to their upright position...tuck in your arms and legs and assume crash posture.

Used to be I'd have the Craftsman at a 45 degree angle with one leg holding me and the mower from tipping over until I got to the end of the ditch. YA! SURE! Don't think you're doing that in this machine, despite your initial reaction.

I had my machine over...very slow roll and only to a point where two men could right it. Nice to know the proper procedure for starting an engine that has been sideways for whatever reason.

Again, thank you for sharing with such pride, completeness, and detail. It helps us all be safer in the long run.

 

[john_bud]

Ok, now that you got it fixed, to back fill the trench.

1) Fill the bucket with spoils.
2) Lower the bucket so it's just off the ground
3) Lower the box blade so it is just off the ground (and it HAS to be dead level). Set the 3pt lift lower limit to that point.
4) back into the spoils line so you are pushing 1/3 to 1/2 of the box blade's width.
5) raise the box up, go forward and repeat step 3&4 about 15,000 bazillion times untill done.


As you know (now), you had the loader up way way way too high. There is no need to have it any higher than about 1 foot above the ground when the tractor is moving. Also, your technique looks like you were filling the bucket then backing up, turning and going forward to dump? You should be on the far side of the spoils pile, filling the bucket and going straight forward to dump, steering around the spoils. Then backing straight back to repeat the process.

Anyhoo, you didn't get hurt, the tractor didn't get hurt and you have a sense of humor about the whole deal. Thanks for sharing the scary moment with us!

jb