50 Hr. Maintenance Issues

[lucymargot]

I just finished reading the thread on the 6800SD 50 Hr maintenance, and it piqued my interest due to what my local dealers have told me.

I became the owner of a 1999 6800 4WD partially synchronized model in March, purchased used with only 14 hours on it.

I am new to tractors, but remember reading here that the 50 Hr maintenance could be done at home, so I dropped in a few weeks ago to pick up the stuff i would need.

I decided a few days ago to get doing with it, as I now have 50 hours, and I noticed that the stuff the dealer sold me did not seem to be complete. No UDT fluid, and two hydraulic oil filters instead. I went to a second dealer and he told me that:

1) there was no need but to check the front differential and front axle gear case oil; if it was full and not cloudy seal her right back up!

2) instead of draining all hydraulic fluid he said to simply replace the filters, saying that I could do so and lose only a few quarts, and would only have to top off the fluid He sad he did shop maintenance in exactly such a way, and given that the package the other dealer sold me looked the same, it is clear that the other dealer does as well. He mentioned that this way you saved $70 in oil expense, and that any metal shavings would all be attached to the magnet or in the filter by now.

Has anyone else been told this? Is it crazy to listen to him? Is there a problem disposing of all that oil? Sure is a lot.

Also, with a 6800 is there any great need to go up to Super UDT from UDT? I was under the impression that Kubota only recommended Super as essential on hydro trannies.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Regards,

Chris

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I've had a dealer tell me each way, change fluid---don't change it, based on the same theory as yours I think. If there IS something in the oil that could do damage it will be caught in the filter, if it isn't caught by the filter it won't do any damage.

Same thing with the oil, UDT, Super UDT, I've read all the posts old and new, asked about 20 different people in "real" life. No consensus at all.

With my RV which is under load constantly I try to use a step up in oil, and I do use diesel rated oil in my tractors, but whether this UDT and Super UDT or even synthetic makes any sense at all is still a toss up in my mind.

With cars I don't know ANYONE who has had to replace a crankshaft, it's always the accessories that cost a jillion dollars and cause the down time and aren't affected by oil.

Maybe in 20 years it will be common known and a common practice to use a certain oil but for now?

It is quite disconcerting to have authorized Kubota dealers contradict each other on something so simple (it seems) as oil and maintenance...

del

[email]oldcarparts@mygarage.com [/email]

 

[Bird]

Chris, I don't know about the 2000 models, but my 1999 B2710 says to use either UDT or Super UDT. And last Fall when I was ready to buy the oil to do the 50 hour maintenance, I happened to be passing a dealership, different from the one I bought the tractor from, and he said he'd never heard of Super UDT. I'm using the regular UDT, although that dealer told me they use another cheaper brand (I've forgotten what it was) in all the tractors they service.

Bird

 

[Billc]

Chris, I have a '99 5400. I was told the same thing by my dealer - Goss Tractor who I like alot - when I did the 50 hr service to replace oil and filter and NOTHING else...not the hydro fluid, not the filters, not the front axle oil. He said it was a waste of time and money. He also said that if I did change the trannie fluid to use UDT, the Super is for the hydros or GSTs.

I did change the hydro fluid and filters, oil and filter, and front axle oil. I thought it's better safe than sorry. Also, I bought my tractor used and I didn't know what it had been through before I got it.

The UDT is fine. The Super UDT (do a key word look up 'cause there is lots of info on the subject) was brought out because the hydros were having a tough time in cold weather when they used UDT (which is what they used when they first came out). But for gears, the UDT is fine and dandy.

If you do decide to drain the hydro fluid make sure you have some BIG containers...there's lots of fluid!

 

[W5FL]

Chris

I wrote the post on the M6800 50 hr maintenance. Don't be concerned with disposing of the oil. My dealer takes it from all of his customers for n/c. So do most of the auto supplies.

I am an engineer and just simply can't stand it when a dealer says don't pay any attention to the factory recommendations or the material specifications they say to use.

The first oil and fluid change is probably the most important one you will ever do on your tractor. The break in fluids in my tractor were different than the recommended fluids, and I am still trying to determine their characteristics. I published the oil analyis from the 6800 at 50 hours in the oil and lubricants topic. Engines, transmissions, rear ends, and other mechanical devices are not perfectly clean when they are assembled and this is the opportunity to get all of the original steel dust and shavings out. By warming up the tractor and shaking it up really well, you will get particles out that have not made it to the filters. I filled 2 5 gallon buckets with hydraulic fluid from the rear axle, but just be ready to move one out and the other under the drain plug.

The oils in the front end were different in the differential and the wheel gear cases for the front wheel drive. They are all the same now. A couple of the zerk fittings on the 3 point did not appear to have ever been greased. That is why I like to do each and every one myself and use a colored grease so you can see the difference in the factory grease and when the new comes through. Two of the loader zerks could not be greased until they were rotated. The zerks on the front end tilt pin are EXTREMELY important to be greased regularly.

I don't think that it matters a great deal if you are in a really warm climate like North Central Texas whether you use UDT or Super UDT. I used Super UDT, but would have preferred to put Amsoil AT-4 in at the first hydraulic change, but didn't know where to buy it. It is about the same cost as Super UDT. The newer shop manuals are only listing Super UDT now and have removed the references to UDT. Please don't put 90W oil in the front axle as you will never get it all out if you were to want to change it later.

The major dealers around this area do not skimp like your dealer. They believe in and perform the 50 hour maintenace just EXACTLY like Kubota gives detailed instructions in the owners manual.

Yes, you can skimp on a lot of lubricant related things. I was raised in a mechanic family where my dad was Service Manager. I got to hear all of the stories of cars less than 2 years old that the engines were completely ruined by not following proper lubrication instructions. Most failures on auto suspension is due to lack of lubrication. Rear ends fail when lubricants are not changed properly. The list is endless of how maintenace is just not done on many automobiles and some tractors.

I once built 3 40 ft high antenna towers from 1955 Buick Driveshafts that had been designed without Zerks. Glad they did as I had my choice of hundreds of them free.

If you use Super UDT the total cost for all brand new fluids including all hydraulic fluid and Kubota Oil is a couple of hundred dollars (<1%) on a $27,000 investment and the regular maintenance intervals are pretty long on the M6800 anyway. Be glad you are doing it yourself as the dealer would tell you that he took care of the 50 hr maintenance and would not have changed anything except oil and filters. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

 

[Rowski]

My NH dealer told me for the 50 hr service to replace the engine oil and filter, just replace the hydraulic filter and top of the level, check all other fluid levels do not refill unless low, grease and lube everything, check all major bolts and nuts (lug nuts, loader mounts, etc. My tractor is not a hydro /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif. I asked about replacing the break-in fluid and told me that that for may years (still today) the cut open the filter for hydraulics and see what is inside. He claims they never find any large amounts of "stuff". But I must say it seems wise (as mentioned by other posters) to replace all break-in fluid even more so if you plan on keeping it for ever.

 

[W5FL]

Rowski,

Can't you just picture a dealer that doesn't believe it is necessary to perform the factory required maintenance correctly to set around doing failure analysis on hydraulic filters? I bet he has good records of the grams of impurities that he has found over the years!

 

[W5FL]

p.s.

Also wonder how he very carefully cleans the magnetic filter that sticks inside the filter(at least in a Kubota) while transmission oil is running out the filter hole at full flow rate. Looks like a better picture than the dutch kid with his finger in the dike. The problem is these dealers actually belive what they are doing is right.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I am a mechanic at a kubota dealership and I KNOW THE GUYS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, NOT PERSONNALY BUT IN GENERAL. They've probably been around since the "old days" and know everything. I've heard alot of it, 140 wt. 90 wt. what's the difference? A 24 volt temp sender and 12 volt sender look the same so they must be the same, The napa belt is the same quality as the kubota belt and it's cheaper. The normally open switch looks the same as the normally closed switch, just put it in. I've never seen that part go bad before, therefore it must not be bad.
The so called "farmer" repairs I've seen are
fine if you're the farmer that has to re-do it when it does'nt work or suffer the consequences when it causes more damage. One of the more infamous repairs would be: Mower gearbox seal leaking, don't repair the 3 dollar seal just pack the gearbox with grease, so next year you can replace every gear and bearing in the gearbox!!! Sorry about the ranting. Do yourself a big favor and stay well informed about your equipment. Do the services "by the book" period.
Alot of the old timers cut there teeth on 90 wt. filled gear drive tractors> They're a long way off from most of the sophisticated drive systems used in modern equipment. Feel free to ask some of these "experts" how a GST system works and see what comes out. Unfortunately these guys are training the new guy {Do the math} PLEASE! by all means feel free to call the factory cust. service number and mention how your dealer cares so much about saving you money, make sure you get his name spelled right.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Dear Kubmech,
Got a couple of question's for you, concerning 50 hr maintenance. In your post you mentioned 90 weight gear oil, I was wondering about that because my manual says I can use it,or 80 weight, in place of UDT in the front axel of my four wheel drive tractor.A Kubota mechanic also told me that it would be better because it would not leak past the seals as easily, especially in heavy use. I am about to put 80w90 in it for it's 50 hour maintenance. Should I?
Second, I have a front end loader on my tractor(L3010) and need to know if it will require more transmission fluid than the manual says. The manual doesn't mention the front end loader, but the loader manual says that when you install the loader you need to add 3.6 quarts of UDT.
Your help with this would be very greatly appreciated.
Marvin