My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

[Harvest Moon]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

I say Kubota cut corners on both these valves to make the L3400 perform inferior to the Grand L. When the complaints started to hurt sales or caused too many repairs/upgrades, Kubota started incorporating the Grand L PCV in the L3400 to improve the situation.

When the economy started to fault for 2008 and fears Grand L sales would drop off in favor of the "economy" tractors.. and everyone forgot about the bad valves, Kubota started reincorporating bad valves into the L3400's to maintain a stronger product differentiation and encourage up-sells.

The B3030 too. Smaller but still an up-sell, and benefits from the product differentiation just as much. If people are considering a B3030 but want to save $1000 and get a bit more machine, they can get the L3400... but if they want a hitch they can grade with and use a post hole digger, then they have to reconsider the B3030 or go up to a Grand L.

The difference in price for the LSV, retail, is less than $20. Kubota couldn't have saved more than $2 per tractor by skipping the spring. It's about product differentiation. Maybe the LSV change won't work but it's hard not to see the differentiation with the L3400, 2008 PCV's.

In the case of the B7800, the L3400 is the up-sell.

 

[teg]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/members/harvest-moon.htmlHarvest Moon, Very well put...

 

[canoetrpr]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

Harvest, the only problem I see with your theory is that I have yet to meet or hear about a Kubota salesperson or sales brochure that actually talks about the smoother 3PT hitch between the economy L and the Grand L.

Honestly I think that there is more than enough there in the Grand L to upsell - particularly with the 40 series. Wish I had gone the Grand L route myself given the higher capacities and so on although HST+ was not there back then on the 30 series.

The 3PT jerkyness .... just confuses me why this would exist and that they would go back to a valve that was jerkier. It must be what Neil says - which is that most people, outside of this site, seem not to notice or complain. I think that it is odd ... but I can't see why else they would keep doing it.

 

[Harvest Moon]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

Yeah, I'm confused about that myself.

I really feel that it's on purpose for differentiation because the sell out on quality and reputation can't be worth the very few $$'s they cut. Why start putting bad valves back in the tractors after the problem was improved? Maybe they don't have to point it out to make the differentiation, people just expect the Grands to have smooth hitches.

The Grand L has lots of great features... most are not essentials. The hitch is essential to most. People that would never upgrade for a digital display would upgrade for a better hitch. Some people don't need the extra capacity.

But I don't have a strong answer for that question.. unless they don't want to call attention to how bad the hitch actually performs and they are counting on us to do it for them.

Probably has a lot to do with what Neil says. I mentioned this to my dealer but never took a stand on it. Actually for most of my 150+ hours it didn't interfere with what I needed to do. Just an irritation and I've gotten pretty good about over lifting and lowering smoothly to the position I want. I'm sure we've over dramatized it for most purposes. I bet most people just accept it and deal with it, especially for commercial use.

I am having fun trying to fix it though and I'll be really, REALLY happy with my machine if I can. A Grand L would be better but I think I'd need a bigger shed... heck, why stop there... I love those mini excavators! And a cab... that would rock!

 

[canoetrpr]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

Yeah Kubota has needlessly dropped a bit of reputation on their handling of the 3 PT valve more than anything else. This is particularly true if that many customers don't complain about it. If I were them I would get i fixed properly for the customers that do.

Ah well! As it sits the 1/4 inching hitch is working reasonably well for my needs. It would be GREAT to see your project being successful. I'd love a smoother hitch but at the end of the day it would not substantially change what I can or cannot do with my tractor. I can do absolutely everything I need it to and I have done a bit of almost everything including drilling post holes just fine. I know I'd feel better if I had a smooth hitch though - if that makes any sense.

On that theory of the flow being too fast for this cylinder - I vaguely recall someone posting here who had changed to an over-the-self UDT compatible hydro fluid and he claimed that his hitch was quite smooth after that. I can't find that post though. I'm wondering if a fluid that does not flow as easily as the SUDT or Premium UDT stuff we have in our tractors is helping even things out a bit.

 

[canoetrpr]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

I've actually pondered moving up to a Grand L 3240 or L 3540 or a used L3130 in the past. It just didn't make sense for a small irritant like the hitch.

After all was said and done, I would be out a few thousand on the deal even if I found a used Grand L in a private sale. Instead that $ would go a LONG way towards buying me a backhoe for the L3400 - which would dig some mighty big holes and be substantially more fun! and would overall give me much more capability than upgrading for the sake of it.

I'm also one of these guys that does not like to sell equipment/cars that I know do the job and don't have any issues. I could end up selling one used tractor - used exclusively by me from new - for another one and get a lemon that was abused by someone else. I'd be kicking myself then!

Of course I've also pondered getting a Grand L with a CAB but the $$$ just never ends... you get the picture.

 

[Harvest Moon]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

I vaguely recall someone posting here who had changed to an over-the-self UDT compatible hydro fluid and he claimed that his hitch was quite smooth after that. I can't find that post though. I'm wondering if a fluid that does not flow as easily as the SUDT or Premium UDT stuff we have in our tractors is helping even things out a bit.

I remember that. There is probably something to a thicker fluid but I'd worry about how it would affect the HST. More recently jeconn's experience with his Father in Laws L3000 working smoothly in the cold morning but rougher at a warmer time supports this too.

Maybe there are other things we can do, as alluded to by Messick. Like you mentioned with the hoses... possibly reducing the flow through the main supply line to the hitch some how. Plan B, something to look into.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

Wow! I didn't realize that the Grand L sales were so much fewer than the B series.

4-1 was standard L's vs L3240's... as you asked. For us we do about 3 B's to 2 L's... but thats a very regional thing.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

When the economy started to fault for 2008 and fears Grand L sales would drop off in favor of the "economy" tractors.. and everyone forgot about the bad valves, Kubota started reincorporating bad valves into the L3400's to maintain a stronger product differentiation and encourage up-sells.

Wow....! Okay. Lets take a step back. There is absolutly no conspiracy going on here over a few parts on a 3pt. Retooling a product is far, far more expensive than any incrimental cost savings. No one is trying to pull a fast one to save $20 on a tractor.

Maybe there are other things we can do, as alluded to by Messick. Like you mentioned with the hoses... possibly reducing the flow through the main supply line to the hitch some how. Plan B, something to look into.

I'm going to get outside my element a bit here, but I think the supply line to the 3pt is external on the tractor. It can be disconnected when a backhoe is installed to keep the operator from raming the 3pt though the backhoe. A quick souce on this would be the mounting kit instructions for the Woods backhoes, the install directions are all online.

 

[teg]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

It does seem like the 2008 models got a different valve (from say 2007) that makes it jerky again...