My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

[Harvest Moon]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

Wow....! Okay. Lets take a step back. There is absolutly no conspiracy going on here over a few parts on a 3pt. Retooling a product is far, far more expensive than any incrimental cost savings. No one is trying to pull a fast one to save $20 on a tractor.

Sure, but the parts I'm talking about were already tooled when much older L's were developed, it's much more like plug and play on the assembly line from my high and mighty TBN perspective. I wasn't really thinking conspiracy (even though I've typed that word before) but more like marketing decisions about product differentiation.

Definitely not to save $20, to encourage upgrades from existing owners and up-sells to potential owners. It wouldn't be about saving money but about lowering the bar on the competition. The L3400 is taking too much business from more expensive and profitable Kubota models, in my theory.

Thanks for the tip on the supply line. I though it was external too but haven't looked to far into it yet.

 

[canoetrpr]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

Neil - I misinterpreted your response a bit. Your posts have been very informative. Thanks.

4-1 L vs GL3240 really does amaze me. I mean it shouldn't because I ended up with a L3400 vs a GL3130 which was the choice then. Guess when I was sitting discussing at the salesperson's desk it didn't seem like it was worth it at the time. Of course the prices I was quoted made it a $3k difference and 0% financing for the L3400 vs 3% financing for the L3130.

I was later surprised to find out that many others had paid nearly as much for a L3130 as they were quoted for a L3400 - maybe a $1000 difference and perhaps at that price I would have gone for it. As I remember it back then cash rebates were higher for the L3130 than the L3400 but I needed the financing anyway.

I imagine though that based on the 4-1 that you state, most other buyers end up having a similar conversation and decide that the extras are not necessary for them.

Something else that swayed my opinion over to the L3400 at the time was that the salesman pointed out to me that 5-10 years from now if I wanted to re-sell my tractor, used tractors tend to be classified by HP more than anything else, along with 'does it have a loader?' - and I would likely actually get more or the same money for a used L3400 with 500 hrs vs a used L3130 with 500 hrs. I'm quite sure he is right about that and that other buyers also have the same equation go through their head.

I don't really think that there is a conspiracy going on either and I don't think that Kubota even tries to upsell the L3240 based on 3 PT smoothness. They newest change in the valve may simply be the fact that they have run out / stopped making the valve that they were using recently. They might have tol address things if there are enough complaints about the valve that is in the tractors right now.

All in all, I think that the smoothness of the 3PT is the only irritant that the L2800/L3400 that I have going against it - and it is substantially smoother for me than many of the other guys here. Otherwise the tractor keeps amazing me and doing everything that I can throw at it.

 

[ht1]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

hi all iam new to the site i also owen an l3400 i thought i did my home work with this tractor but i failed the test i am unhappy with the operation of the 3 point lift that is no surprise. i can get smooth lift if i lift my loader at the same time i lift my 3 point this is not practical but you can see how the 3 point should work.i have not looke at hydraulic system diagrams also air in the system can be causing this problem. i think we will get to the root problem eventually. if i uprade it will be GREEN not to an grand L.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

Sure, but the parts I'm talking about were already tooled when much older L's were developed

I checked our online service center, the last change to the 3pt looks like it was to an anti-fall valve.

Definitely not to save $20, to encourage upgrades from existing owners and up-sells to potential owners. It wouldn't be about saving money but about lowering the bar on the competition. The L3400 is taking too much business from more expensive and profitable Kubota models, in my theory.

In a customer, dealer, or corporate setting, I've never once heard anyone refer to what your all working on here. Its really isolated to these few posts on TBN. I'd agree that improvements could be made and I think you probably onto somthing with a fix. Its simply that a vast majority of people simply don't find this to be a problem. I can't find anything in our service tools about 3pt jerk since 2005. There is not some global scandle going on.

 

[canoetrpr]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

ht1 - interesting post about using the loader at the same time as the 3PT! I've never tried that but it would point to my theory of the flow being too fast for the cylinder on the 3PT!

I don't quite know about hydraulics but if the flow was restricted, I would have thought that the lift capacity would be limited as well. I think there was a post here saying it was not so.

I'm going to go home and try to raise my 3 PT along with the loader at the same time!

 

[canoetrpr]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

ht1 - I have to ask. Why not the Grand L?

Trust me I've had enough negative experiences with Kubota Canada to a last a life time but overall Kubota, Japan seems to make top notch stuff

I've pondered this before and I like both the JD 3x20 series and the Grand L but I keep coming back to Grand L on value for the $. I don't think there is much difference between the capacities of the JD3x20 and the GL3x40 and the price difference that I keep finding seems to really be for the Green paint / JD brand name.

I think that the Grand L is slightly bigger and looks beefier to me to and the plastic hood on the JD turns me off a bit.

Both seem like pretty nice machines though.

 

[Harvest Moon]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

I checked our online service center, the last change to the 3pt looks like it was to an anti-fall valve.

Thanks for looking into this. I'm not sure what an anti-fall valve is? I can't speak from personal experience but from the few, and I admit few, complaints coming in, it sounds like the L3400 took a step back. I know they upgraded the position control valve to a new model number. I haven't seen the parts breakdown for it so I don't know if it's really a new valve.

There is not some global scandle going on.

I'm just having fun with this theory. I do believe there is some intent to this and they don't want the L3400 to have the same level of performance as the luxury models but I'm sure their end goal is not to offend and turn away customers. I don't think they said "hey, let's trick people into buying this tractor."

I love the input from you guys and ht1, wow, why didn't I think to try that. Because of this discusson, I've reevaluated the LSV components and I think they may support the new flow rate theory.

I still think the fluid goes through this thing like an adjustable check. The LSV with the spring has a washer that I thought retains the spring. Now I'm not so sure. The washer limits the flow by obstruction, reducing the opening to approximately half what it is without. I'm starting to consider that the spring retains the washer and the washer is the key component.

The L3000, a much older model had an LSV VERY similar to the L3400. I think to improve it for better performance in later Grand L's they may have added the washer. Since it was a simple retro fit, they had to throw a spring in to hold the washer in place. When they decided to create the "Economy L's" for what ever debatable reason, they removed the flow restricting washer and the spring.

I'm now thinking that this LSV slows the flow. More importantly, even if it doesn't, installing a washer with an even smaller hole may create the desired flow reduction rate, right at cylinder.

 

[canoetrpr]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

Harvest Moon... nice theory! Hope it works out.

 

[Wayne_Freeman]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

In my two years as an L3400 owner I have just learned to live with this problem. Yes it is real. Yes it does exist and if a survey of owners was coducted concerning this issue the results would be overwhelming in my opinion. I applaud the efforts here and hope we find a solution soon.

 

[ht1]

Re: My quest for "Grand" 3 point performance from my "economy" tractor. The L3400

This is just a theory...but I was thinking that a quick fix could be as simple as replacing the input pipe (steel) with a rubber hose. This could absorb some of the hydraulic hammering that we are experiencing. Again...just a theory, haven't decided if a smaller or larger diameter rubber hose would help.